they found the trapped miners

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Boroda
It's interesting that we don't have such films as you have on "history channel".  

OMG! It's worse than I thought over there Boroda

Is the History Channel shown in other countries? Does anyone know?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by GScholz
We had our own rescue ship nearby and the Russians can be criticised for not accepting help, but somehow I suspect the USN would also choose not to accept foreign help if one of their nukesubs were to sink. With a full-blown arctic storm in the area even our guys say they most likely could not have helped, and with all due respect to the USN underwater operations and rescue is a Norwegian speciality.

An non-military,independant British team specializing in deep sea dives complete with pressurization bells and suits offered help within 24 hours and were refused, they set sail to the area regardless because, as in the words of their captain "the worse that could happen is we'd just have to turn around".

I might add that the Brits were the first country to offer help, and second was the U.S., both within 24 hours of hearing about the catastrophe.  During the first 24 hours of the event, the Russian Navy is even quoted (they had footage) of claiming that no emergency existed and it was simply a routine operational error.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by GScholz
Weeks. To sad they could do nothing for the crew but knock on the hull, those hatches were hopelessly jammed shut no matter what they tried. To get to them the hull needed to be cut open which was completely unfeasible in the time they had and under those conditions.

Negative. The rear escape hatch was in perfect condition.  When they did access the hull, this is the route they took (watch the footage if you get a chance)  Unfortunately, by this time, day 9, the sub was flooded in that compartment and the air that did escape during depressuration was tested, and turned out to be not breathable (of course, they men had died 6 days earlier the estimated)

Bottom line by those that were involved in the rescue, then salvage operation: "The men could have been saved had it not been for the historically typical arrogance of the Russian Navy that we thought only exited in Cold war conditions."

I might add the letters written to loved  and the timeline of those letters proved that these men could have indeed survived.  The rescue bells, subs today can equalize the pressures at that depth and prevent the bends so Borodas theory of "unrescueable" is not true.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Bear in mind that the interviews were with Russian commanders, and rescue personal that were at the scene but were not allowed to dive on the sub until day 9.  As far as journalists are concerned, there were none inviewed...only those that were involved in the rescue operation were interviewed, but I'm sure they were lying too.

They were not allowed to dive until day 9? So what were all the rescue subs doing since first day?

What could divers do to the sub? Knock at the hatch?

There is no way to save sub crew from 100m without using rescue capsules or rescue subs.

I always wonder is all this totaly distorted view on what happens here a result of cultural/lingual misunderstanding or is it intentional?

Rip, about "During the first 24 hours of the event, the Russian Navy is even quoted (they had footage) of claiming that no emergency existed and it was simply a routine operational error" - it's funny to hear it. I was here in Moscow and was watching news on TV, so don't tell me "they have footage". I am not an idiot and I usually know what day of week and month it is.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Boroda
They were not allowed to dive until day 9? So what were all the rescue subs doing since first day?

What could divers do to the sub? Knock at the hatch?

There is no way to save sub crew from 100m without using rescue capsules or rescue subs.

I always wonder is all this totaly distorted view on what happens here a result of cultural/lingual misunderstanding or is it intentional?

Rip, about "During the first 24 hours of the event, the Russian Navy is even quoted (they had footage) of claiming that no emergency existed and it was simply a routine operational error" - it's funny to hear it. I was here in Moscow and was watching news on TV, so don't tell me "they have footage". I am not an idiot and I usually know what day of week and month it is.

The Russian navy, because of lack of maintenance that has befallen it since the Cold war ended, had their rescue sub in the water approx. 26 hours after the Kursk did not check in on time.  However, it was in the water for 10 min. before they had to yank it and repair it, it was in such poor shape. When they did finally get the Russian Navy rescue sub to the Kurst, they didn't have the proper equipment to extract the men due to the depth, and the sub itself was limited to 12 persons I believe.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by GScholz
Oh? I've not seen any documentary on the operation yet, but from what I remember from the news at the time the divers had great difficulty with the hatches due to the hull was warped from the explosion and crash.

Thats the difficulty I mentioned in this above post, they did have difficulties, but it was because of the russian rescue subs lack of ability to do the job correctly.  The Brits, Nors, and US had the right equipment for that type of rescue...and their equipment is constantly maintained.  They have a unique flexible access tube that covers the emergency hatch, creates a vacuum, and clings to the hull surround the emergency hatch. Then pressured before opening.  The Russian rescue sub was limited to mating direct to the hatch, so you may be right, there could have been some difficulties, but the whole point is...there *was* proper equipment there to do the job, arrogance and politics stood in their way.

The same reason the Russian rescue sub couldn't do the job is the same reason the Torps blew up, lack of maintenance.  Those torps are not a can of soup you can store on a shelf for years and expect them to behave (Ask anyone about Hydrogen peroxide fuels)

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
I might add the letters written to loved  and the timeline of those letters proved that these men could have indeed survived.  The rescue bells, subs today can equalize the pressures at that depth and prevent the bends so Borodas theory of "unrescueable" is not true.

I don't remember how many attempts were made to attach a specially-designed rescue sub to the rear hatch, I was posting about it on AGW in real time.

Did they tell about this attempts in that "documentary", or they just hired some emigrants who can speak Russian to act as "divers"?

Rip, we have free press here, and such things couldn't have escaped from public. If that "officers" could be interviewd by what you call "history channel" - our right-wing "democratic liberal press" should bark about it at every corner.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Boroda
I don't remember how many attempts were made to attach a specially-designed rescue sub to the rear hatch, I was posting about it on AGW in real time.

Did they tell about this attempts in that "documentary", or they just hired some emigrants who can speak Russian to act as "divers"?

.

Yes, they did Boroda, but it was lack of proper equipment and the egos that couldn't bear the fact to see themselves ask for help.  See my above post.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Boroda

Rip, we have free press here, and such things couldn't have escaped from public. If that "officers" could be interviewd by what you call "history channel" - our right-wing "democratic liberal press" should bark about it at every corner.

Did you see the footage of the wife of one of the victims at the Deputy Prime Ministers press conference? She was outraged because of the lack of information, the delay of the rescue...well, in typical Soviet fashion, military men walked up to this distraught woman that was ranting the D.P.M. and injected her with a sedative right thru her coat!.  The sedative took effect in about 15 seconds and she was helped to her seat.

[Krusher]

So much for a thread about miners being found alive  LOL

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by GScholz
From what I've read the 65-76 torpedo was fairly new, but was damaged accidentally during loading at port and later started to leak.

Well, in this documentary they said it could have possibly been damaged during loading, but was most likely due to lack of maintenance because of military budget cuts. (shrugs)

[Ripsnort]

Anyway, we can agree on one thing, militaries, politics and the egos that go along with them certainly had a fatal outcome of the events.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by GScholz
Well if that's the case we should see lots of Russian subs blowing up. The 65-76 torpedo is used on all Russian nukesubs.

Unless these events lead to better maintenance.....The US took  the hydrogen peroxide propellent type torps out of their inventory due to the hazards of such torps in the 70's I believe, you can check on this with Swager, he was a submariner.

[Krusher]

Originally posted by GScholz
Well if that's the case we should see lots of Russian subs blowing up. The 65-76 torpedo is used on all Russian nukesubs.

After the disaster, the Russian Navy ordered torpedoes of that type that exploded to be removed from service.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by GScholz
Well the Russian Prosecutor General agrees with you, but he also states that the survivors all died after 6 to 8 hours.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2153484.stm

Like I said, the letters don't lie.