they found the trapped miners

[Krusher]

Great news from Russia where they have found 11 of the 13 miners Alive. Theses guys were underground for 6 days!

It was a pretty heroic rescue effort to say the least.

[Ripsnort]

Great news~! They did better in this rescue operation than they did with the Kursk.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by GScholz
Yeah, like the crew of the Kursk could have been saved.

Absolutely they could have been saved, the 23 trapped in the rear bulkhead died as a result of the Russian Navy's refusal to accept outside help until day 9  Read up on it, its a sad story about how the "Cold war" mentality still exists when it comes to people asking for help.

[Krusher]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Absolutely they could have been saved, the 23 trapped in the rear bulkhead died as a result of the Russian Navy's refusal to accept outside help until day 9  Read up on it, its a sad story about how the "Cold war" mentality still exists when it comes to people asking for help.

Last night the History channel had a very good show on the Kursk tradgedy. The crew that survived the initial blast were some very brave men. They made a decision not to try the escape hatch and to wait for rescue. They might be alive if it wasnt for the stubborness of the Fleet commanders and the politicians at home. Both the UK and the USA had rescue rigs that were ready to go. The UK even had some specialized divers (trained for deep water) that could have been used to check for survivors.

[Maniac]

**** off rip

[Mickey1992]

I can't believe they got them out alive after 6 days.  That's even longer than the PA miners were trapped, and I didn't think they would make it either.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Krusher
Last night the History channel had a very good show on the Kursk tradgedy. The crew that survived the initial blast were some very brave men. They made a decision not to try the escape hatch and to wait for rescue. They might be alive if it wasnt for the stubborness of the Fleet commanders and the politicians at home. Both the UK and the USA had rescue rigs that were ready to go. The UK even had some specialized divers (trained for deep water) that could have been used to check for survivors.

Exactly.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Maniac
**** off rip

DO you have some information to share other than the facts that are out there? Or just riding on emotions alone?

[davidpt40]

I saw that History channel show.  They said a fire in the crew compartment killed the trapped men.  The best hypothesis is that one of the crew dropped his oxygen-maker into the oily water which incinerated most of the men and suffocated the rest.

Interesting fact:  The sub was actually longer than the depth of water it was in.  Probably not very feasible, but Russian command could have just raised up one end of the sub to the surface.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by davidpt40
I saw that History channel show.  They said a fire in the crew compartment killed the trapped men.  The best hypothesis is that one of the crew dropped his oxygen-maker into the oily water which incinerated most of the men and suffocated the rest.

Interesting fact:  The sub was actually longer than the depth of water it was in.  Probably not very feasible, but Russian command could have just raised up one end of the sub to the surface.

They had letters written to loved ones that were up to 3 days old from the surviving 23.  I missed the part you mentioned, I thought they assumed all perished due to flooding from the prop shaft leakage and /or affixiation, lack of oxygen? (the kurst leaked quite a bit at the shaft inlet unless the shaft was turning)

Either way, I'm sure Boroda will be along soon and claim that US subs sunk her just like the Deputy Prime Minister claimed during his press conference.

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Either way, I'm sure Boroda will be along soon and claim that US subs sunk her just like the Deputy Prime Minister claimed during his press conference.

No, actually it was Karl Stromberg trying to steal their nukes.

[Krusher]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
They had letters written to loved ones that were up to 3 days old from the surviving 23.  I missed the part you mentioned, I thought they assumed all perished due to flooding from the prop shaft leakage and /or affixiation, lack of oxygen? (the kurst leaked quite a bit at the shaft inlet unless the shaft was turning)

Thats what I watched also. I think davidpt40 was in the bathroom when this part was on hehe

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Either way, I'm sure Boroda will be along soon and claim that US subs sunk her just like the Deputy Prime Minister claimed during his press conference.

Rip, AFAIK no sub crews were ever rescued from deeper then 60m. I mean rescued from outside.

The "record" is held by one guy who survived from Komsomolets in a rescue capsule, from 1.5 km IIRC. The capsule detached from sub when it hit the sea floor.

As for US sub sinking Kursk - I don't know, but it looked possible at that time. I hope you saw pictures of Memphis "spec ops" sub on repair in Norway. They were damaged so badly they couldn't make it home. And I have heard that it was signed off duty after that accident. I wonder if someone explained why.

Knowing that US subs are such frequent guests in our domestic waters that our sub commanders have to ram them to make them leave (shooting at them is impolite), and Americans usually are deaf and blind and can't turn away - Kursk could just collide with that recon sub.

Again - it looked possible right after the catastrophe. Now it's clear that it was a torpedo explosion. Or they simply don't tell us...

It's interesting that we don't have such films as you have on "history channel". As usual, journalists are informed better then our Navy. I think next time Navy has to hire them for investigation instead of lifting the sunk vessel. It's all so easy in the movies.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by GScholz
We had our own rescue ship nearby and the Russians can be criticised for not accepting help, but somehow I suspect the USN would also choose not to accept foreign help if one of their nukesubs were to sink. With a full-blown arctic storm in the area even our guys say they most likely could not have helped, and with all due respect to the USN underwater operations and rescue is a Norwegian speciality.

As far as I remember it took your rescue ship several days to sail to the chash site...

Your divers made an exellent job, WTG! I wonder how long did it take to decopress after working for hours at 100m...

I really liked that the times have changed since 1988 when Navy refused from Norwegian assistance that could save many people from Komsomolets.

There was a Soviet film called "An accident in sector 36-80", about the same situation - an American sub has a reactor malfunction, and a commander refuses to accept help from a Soviet rescue team. The tanker that fueled a rescue plane gives up all it's fuel and the tanker crew merely escapes death by landing on an old nazi field in the mountains... The film was made in 1982, and 7 years later same thing happened to a Komsomolets

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Boroda

It's interesting that we don't have such films as you have on "history channel". As usual, journalists are informed better then our Navy. I think next time Navy has to hire them for investigation instead of lifting the sunk vessel. It's all so easy in the movies.

Bear in mind that the interviews were with Russian commanders, and rescue personal that were at the scene but were not allowed to dive on the sub until day 9.  As far as journalists are concerned, there were none inviewed...only those that were involved in the rescue operation were interviewed, but I'm sure they were lying too.