Author Topic: they found the trapped miners (Read 1289 times)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #30 on:** October 29, 2003, 11:30:39 AM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
I have not read them, do you have any information on their content?

Only what was shown in the documentary. If they air it again, I'll record it and send you the tape. Or, you might check the Historychannel.com and see if you can purchase the tape.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #31 on:** October 29, 2003, 11:58:56 AM »

The name of the book is "inviting disaster" by James Chile and here is some info about the segment:

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Inviting Disaster: #2
The amazing machines of human invention most often do our bidding with uncomplaining proficiency. But when they go wrong, they exact a terrible wage. In August 2000, the Russian submarine Kursk glided through the depths of the Arctic Sea. But the demands of the Cold War had planted the seeds of disaster in this great ship--118 men would pay with their lives. Their deaths would bring about an enormous step forward in Russia's evolving democracy. Based on James Chiles's book "Inviting Disaster". TV PG

straffo · « **Reply #32 on:** October 29, 2003, 12:09:47 PM »

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Originally posted by NUKE
OMG! It's worse than I thought over there Boroda

Is the History Channel shown in other countries? Does anyone know?

It show on sat. but their French is terrible

so terrible that it look like the bastardized french also called english

Martlet · « **Reply #33 on:** October 29, 2003, 12:46:12 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
I have not read them, do you have any information on their content?

It was a great documentary. I was looking for information on the "letter", and found a bunch of partial links. I haven't been able to find it in it's entirety. If you do a google search for Dmitry Kolesnikov (the person who wrote it), you'll find a bunch of snippets. If you dig through them, you may be able to find the whole note.

Boroda · « **Reply #34 on:** October 30, 2003, 12:58:32 PM »

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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Yes, they did Boroda, but it was lack of proper equipment and the egos that couldn't bear the fact to see themselves ask for help. See my above post.

Well, if we didn't have proper equipment - then who else has it? Are British rescue subs designed to fit Soviet submarine hatches? Norwegians could not even open the hatch in compartment 9 util they were provided with special keys and wrenches....

Equipment indeed lacked maintenance. But the real problem was that it was designed to fit only when the hatches were directed straight up, and K-141 laid on it's side

There was a report on TV that days from British recsue training centre. They said British rescue subs suffered from the same problem. Disclaimer: I saw it on TV, so I can't say it's "true".

Inviting Norwegians was probably the bravest decision made in after that accident. GScholz is right: noone will be happy inviting foreigners to the top-secret submarine rescue. It's not national, it's military way of thinking.

Boroda · « **Reply #35 on:** October 30, 2003, 01:04:56 PM »

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Originally posted by Martlet
It was a great documentary. I was looking for information on the "letter", and found a bunch of partial links. I haven't been able to find it in it's entirety. If you do a google search for Dmitry Kolesnikov (the person who wrote it), you'll find a bunch of snippets. If you dig through them, you may be able to find the whole note.

Did they "show" the letter? Did they show other letters then Kolesnikov's?

Kolesnikov's letter was written less then 4 hours after the explosion.

IIRC all other letters found were immediately classified. Anyone pretending he shows them on TV or quoting them is a liar.

I get more and more surprised how such lies are easily fed to the public. WTG.

NUKE · « **Reply #36 on:** October 30, 2003, 01:34:01 PM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
Did they "show" the letter? Did they show other letters then Kolesnikov's?

Kolesnikov's letter was written less then 4 hours after the explosion.

IIRC all other letters found were immediately classified. Anyone pretending he shows them on TV or quoting them is a liar.

I get more and more surprised how such lies are easily fed to the public. WTG.

Your so funny Boroda. How do you know for sure that the letter was written less than 4 hours after the explosion? Were you on board with him or did you get your information from some form of lying media?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #37 on:** October 30, 2003, 01:37:20 PM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
Well, if we didn't have proper equipment - then who else has it? Are British rescue subs designed to fit Soviet submarine hatches?

Yes, they are. Its a flexible rubber sleeve, fits ANY hatch (see my posts above) The Soviets knew the Brits had this technology aboard their Rescue sub.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #38 on:** October 30, 2003, 01:40:34 PM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
Did they "show" the letter? Did they show other letters then Kolesnikov's?

Kolesnikov's letter was written less then 4 hours after the explosion.

IIRC all other letters found were immediately classified. Anyone pretending he shows them on TV or quoting them is a liar.

I get more and more surprised how such lies are easily fed to the public. WTG.

GEE I WONDER WHY THEY WERE IMMEDIATELY CLASSIFIED?!?

(Pssst, because they timeline would have been exposed, listening sensors reported by the US Navy vessels in the area said the men were alive 3 days after the initial "Minor problem"

)

Don't ya just hate democracy, Boroda? Shows how screwed up your country was, and still is. (Not that ours is much better, but hey, someones got to be on the bottom of the food chain.)

Boroda · « **Reply #39 on:** October 30, 2003, 01:46:23 PM »

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Originally posted by Ripsnort
But the demands of the Cold War had planted the seeds of disaster in this great ship--118 men would pay with their lives. Their deaths would bring about an enormous step forward in Russia's evolving democracy.

@#$%@^^ bastards.

@#$% them. @#$% their "democracy".

Only a @#$%^@ bastard could say such a thing

Boroda · « **Reply #40 on:** October 30, 2003, 01:57:11 PM »

Your so funny Boroda. How do you know for sure that the letter was written less than 4 hours after the explosion? Were you on board with him or did you get your information from some form of lying media?

Lying media here is definetly not Russian.

The letter was a report to senior command, contained names and personal numbers of the survived crew members and had a time in the end.

I hope that you are smart enough that the report contained strictly classified information. It was given to the family only after serious investigation and hard work on restoring it, because the paper was damaged by water and fire.

Boroda · « **Reply #41 on:** October 30, 2003, 01:59:53 PM »

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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Yes, they are. Its a flexible rubber sleeve, fits ANY hatch (see my posts above) The Soviets knew the Brits had this technology aboard their Rescue sub.

Using the same method our radioactive friend tried: did you try to fit a British "flexible rubber sleeve" to a hatch of Krasnodar class submerged missile 1st rank cruiser?

What I have heard on TV (same level of argument as yourth, sorry) was quite different.

NUKE · « **Reply #42 on:** October 30, 2003, 02:01:39 PM »

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Lying media here is definetly not Russian.

The letter was a report to senior command, contained names and personal numbers of the survived crew members and had a time in the end.

I hope that you are smart enough that the report contained strictly classified information. It was given to the family only after serious investigation and hard work on restoring it, because the paper was damaged by water and fire.

In other words you do not know for sure that the letter was written within 4 hours of the blast.

Boroda · « **Reply #43 on:** October 30, 2003, 02:13:16 PM »

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Originally posted by Ripsnort
GEE I WONDER WHY THEY WERE IMMEDIATELY CLASSIFIED?!?

(Pssst, because they timeline would have been exposed, listening sensors reported by the US Navy vessels in the area said the men were alive 3 days after the initial "Minor problem" )

Pretty damn stupid emoticon here.

So - there were US navy vesels there?

Listening sensors could hear people inside Kursk from outside of segured aquatory? Go tell me they heard them from sattelites.

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Originally posted by Ripsnort

Don't ya just hate democracy, Boroda? Shows how screwed up your country was, and still is. (Not that ours is much better, but hey, someones got to be on the bottom of the food chain.)

Very nice. "Democracy" for us means being at the bottom of food chain. And as we have seen - an american way of delivering "democracy" is on the cruise missiles and B-52s.

I don't think that Democracy is good. It doesn't have an absolute value. In most of the cases it is dangerous. In most of the cases "democracy" is only a curtain for the masses who don't have any declared access to understanding what goes on. Mostly because they are stupid enough to be fed with propaganda. That "documentary" you like so much is a good example.

Boroda · « **Reply #44 on:** October 30, 2003, 02:16:33 PM »

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Originally posted by NUKE
In other words you do not know for sure that the letter was written within 4 hours of the blast.

In other words Kolesnikov's father didn't say anything against it. Navy officials said it was signed 15:15, less then four hours after the explosion.

Noone can be sure when it was written. Kolesnikov could have his watch stopped, could be mistaken, etc., but when he wrote it he signed it 15:15.

Are we talking in different languages?...