I hate buffs above 25k

[Zigrat]

They suck, they travel at 320 knots at 27k and you cannot catch them and make good attack runs on them. Even a buff at 23k i dont mind so much, you can still get above it and make decent runs on it.

I do not have a prob with buff guns when they are low, below 20k, they need them for defense. When a buff is at 27k, he is immune to everything. You make 1 pass on him, which is not lethal unless u are in a c hog, and you loose 3k alt and you will never catch him again.

I know i should not attcak them, but i just hate those damn buff alt dweebs and i wanna kil them. Like a moth to a light.

[RAM]

REpeat with me :

Buffs are well ballanced...buffs are well ballanced...

it is crap isnt it? well go to gameplay forum and take a look at the "guns in bombers are ok" thread.

Buffs are a joke. I like them when they pull a 4G close turn with all their lasers firing accurate fire to cons at 1K.

As a joke they are really fun. So laugh at them or die, Zigrat. Its as simple as that  

[Wanker]

This subject could be debated forever(and probably will be) without ever coming to a an agreeable solution for both parties.

Warts and all, I think the way buffs are modeled right now is about right.

[Ash]

Zigrat and RAM,

  I feel your pain, but I think a Buff should be able to fly as high as he wants. But! If he's over 25K, he shouldn't be able to hit snot <BFG>. There should be some type of accuracy penalty the higher the buff goes, and I would think an additional accuracy hit depending on the type of buff/bomb site your flying/using.
   I can see in the future a group of Ju88s at 30K being untouchable <speed> by fighter intercepts and the 88s still being able to knock out an 5X5 meter AAA position. We need bomb dispersion!

OTR,
   Ash
   I./JG2

[Ripsnort]

The only thing you can accurately hit above 25k is Hangars and HQ, everything else is very tough, unless you use 1000 lbers for smaller targets.

[Tac]

Well there are some possible solutions against strato buffs.

1) Even with norden, make all ground object dissapear when buff is above 23k. Its a ww2 norden sight, not the damn Hubble!

2) Allow players to purposely deploy SMOKE SCREENS. Get a tank and blow smoke all over the field (or introduce a smoke deploying halftrack or something)... say, green colored smoke  . That way nothing, not even vulchers would be able to see anything inside the smoke screen. Framerate? oh hell!

3) clouds? Add a cloud layer at 23k.  

and lastly, make those buffs behave like buffs. Those things turn on a dime and are quite good at defending themselves against hordes of fighters. Lately ive seen buffs that spot incoming fighters from a good angle and they use their amazing rudder turns to have the tail gun face the fighter. Tactics? Yep, there goes the neighborhood.

PD: The B-26 is an awesome anti-buff interceptor. Get a gunner and start raking them other buffs from d1.2. Its like flying a heavy p-38!

[minus]

and Why we need 262 !! finaly chill down strato buffs  

[Exile]

In real life could a buff actually operate at those high alts? If so, fine, but if not, then they should be fixed.

I've never taken a buff up very high, but they should be as restricted in movement as any other aircraft when it reaches it's "service ceiling".


[This message has been edited by Exile (edited 08-14-2000).]

[Downtown]

The question I have always asked is why planes designed to either Escort bombers or intercept bombers at the altitudes that bombers operate at cannot manuver at that altitude as well as the bombers themselve.

I have been flying the P-47 mostly lately.  From what I read the P-47 should rule above 25K.  It had a two stage super chager and the 2nd stage kicked in at 25k.

As Zig has stated I may get one pass at a buff. But when I start to turn to make a 2nd pass (and I am not taking sharp turns) the Rattle of the stall starts, and the plane starts to loose altitude.

So I can't complete the turn, and I loose altitude, and the bomber keeps going flat and level and moves away.  I now have to turn at a lower altitude and start to climb. YOu loose speed on that climb, and the bomber pulls further away.

If you get altitude on a bomber he only has to make a gentle turn to blow your solution and as you pass at 400 IAS there is the Ping Ping Ping.

I just want parity at altitude.  Historically bombers did operate at 27 to 30K.  And Fighters did attack and make multiple passes at 27 to 30K on them same bombers.  If a bomber can turn at 30K then a fighter should be able to turn at 30K.

------------------

"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

[JimBear]

First off, a B-17G flying at 27,000' is operating at a historic and documented bombing altitude. If the argument is that the Fighters do not perform according to spec up there, fine.Thats another thread. But does anyone honestly think that the 10 man crews that rode those things flew for 8-9hours at a time with oxygen on full time and in -50deg F temperatures because it was fun? It was to stay alive, above and out of range but all but the most determined enemy.

Yeah,It can be a drag to have to really work for a kill   On the flip side, is shooting down the same guy in his Fighter 2 times before he finally kills ya while on the rtb in said B-17.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by JimBear:
First off, a B-17G flying at 27,000' is operating at a historic and documented bombing altitude. If the argument is that the Fighters do not perform according to spec up there, fine.Thats another thread. But does anyone honestly think that the 10 man crews that rode those things flew for 8-9hours at a time with oxygen on full time and in -50deg F temperatures because it was fun? It was to stay alive, above and out of range but all but the most determined enemy.

Yeah,It can be a drag to have to really work for a kill   On the flip side, is shooting down the same guy in his Fighter 2 times before he finally kills ya while on the rtb in said B-17.

IF you call me for realism and WWII references on why did bombers fly at 27.000 feet then I answer you that they had to fly in boxes of hundreds of bombers to hit big factories on a BIG extension.

And dont forget they released all the cargo on one pass, sometimes to hit nothing...

I guess that the current B2 spirit would like a "sight" like the one we have right now in AH.

SO much yell for realism on other things and we have turbobuffs here.  

[Rendar]

Hmmm...

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Rendar

[This message has been edited by Rendar (edited 08-14-2000).]

[-towd_]

at 27 k if they gave it full throttle BOOOOOOM  and nobody ever dived a 17 to 400 kn and wrote about itit easy to sustain in a shallow dive here , the bufs should be tough  but slow not tough and blasingly fast . and gorect me if im wrong but a b 26 was a med buff ? highest speed at luike 14 or 16 k not 20 freakin 9 k

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

B17s should fly as high as they want but the bombing accuracy must drop accordingly. They shouldnt be able to hit very much from extremly high alts above 25K. As for doing 320kts thats simply beyond their historic performance capabilities as the top speed of a empty B17G was just about 300mph and the real ones flew at a combat speed of 170 mph.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Not really want to show off here, but in SFRT we usually limit our max alt in buff at 25K for gameplay purposes even on HQ runs.

It definitly increases our chances of being shot down before reaching the target. Now we are still mad when a FW comes kamikazee on us and flies straight to a buff till he rams it and at least got 1/1 death ratio.   But that is an another topic).

(This post doesn't mean that you will never find an SFRT strato buff, but as a rule of thumb we try to limit our alt in the interest of the arena).

I'm sure some other Squads too have similar internal limitation "rules".