Author Topic: Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)  (Read 5648 times)

Offline mold

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Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2003, 09:22:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
A lot of the Jap pilots that "specialize" in the N1K hit "impossible" shots because they've got like 10 minute lag.  You think you are 6-700 hundred yards away, they see you as 6 or 7 yards away... ditto on the "impossible" HO shots... everything you do is delayed by 5-6 seconds..  if you try to fight them normally you'll get killed because you aren't anticipating far enough ahead.


This is VERY true, and I believe it also explains the phenomenon of superplanes that the original poster mentions in this thread.  Naturally this effect is not just limited to any particular plane, or Japan.  I noticed this kind of thing happening in warbirds as well, and I was pretty consistently able to confirm that my opponent was at a remote and laggy location.  It's too bad, really--frustrating for both sides, since the killer doesn't get the satisfaction of an honest kill and the killee gets massacred in a perfectly safe position.  I don't know what the solution is, though, since simply booting cons left and right will ruin the game for everyone concerned.  The damn backbone providers need to upgrade their damn networks.

Offline Zanth

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Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2003, 10:16:10 AM »
It isn't the sort of plane that is going to come get you, it barely exceeds 300 mph (low).  I have come to believe about the only time a N1k2 (among others) kills you is when you made a mistake.  You screw up around a N1k2 you are going to pay, and it is your own fault.

I like N1k2's fine, they are worth a lot of perks!

Soda has a nice write-up

"Fighting the N1K

Dangerous, you never know what to expect from a N1K.  It might simply get out of your way or it might spin around and stare you in the face.  It really depends on how alert the N1K pilot it.  Luckily, there are few decent pilots who ride the N1K around a lot so you can often catch N1K drivers napping.

When attacking the N1K never slow down.  The N1K isn't really that tough and seems unable to take a real hit and continue.  It's not fragile, but it also seems pretty easy to catch one on fire or knock of a tail.  The N1K also has some serious visibility problems from the cockpit.  The canopy is heavily framed which can lead to a number of blind spots and difficulties in tracking, so you might be able to sneak up on a N1K fairly easily.  Also, most N1K's turn so much that they are vulnerable from almost any angle, not just behind, since what is facing you at one second might be facing away at another.  See if you can't get some bait to take the focus of the N1K and then try and time your attack so you slip in behind for your shot.  Never slow down though.  If you do get slow and try to out-accelerate the N1K he is going to spray the sky full of 20mm and probably get you, even if you think you'd normally be safe from such a tactic.  Slash attack, never Head-On, and never get lower than the N1K so he can't corner you.

If attacked by a N1K, try to break free with speed.  Dive steeply using roll to get the N1K out of phase and then sprint to safety.  You can't really turn with a N1K in most planes and even if you can the smart N1K pilot will move the fight vertical on you and spoil your plans.  Don't give even low percentage shots and never assume the N1K will hold fire to preserve ammunition, he won't.  The N1K isn't good at high speeds though, or at medium or higher altitudes, so if you meet one up that high simply don't engage unless you get him by surprise or can use a reasonable amount of vertical in order to stay out of harms way."
« Last Edit: November 13, 2003, 10:20:50 AM by Zanth »

Offline Sikboy

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Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2003, 11:10:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SOB
Yeah, but I know from experience that you're a dirty skill-less HO Dweeb.


AND you use combat trim.

*****.

-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline LePaul

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« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2003, 11:33:15 AM »
The N1K has always fascinated me...I was cruising along in a 51D at 19k, great speed.  Had one go under me, turn, and GAIN on me...wtf?  I want warp drive too

;)

Offline OIO

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« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2003, 01:08:09 PM »
Widewing, try determining the e-retention of the n1k on high-g turns and its ability to maintain perfect control when on wep , nose 90 degrees up and below 50mph.

It has been my experience, both flying the thing and fighting against it, that this plane was either designed by super genious and did perform in WW2 as it does in AH or somethign IS out of whack in this plane in the game.

I dont understand how a plane with such a monstrous engine, on WEP can fly below 50mph and still be able to maintain the same control as if it was flying straight and level. No twisting, no stall behaviour.. its really really weird. A few months ago I did a series of tests with my then TED squaddies.. the n1k hung on prop chasing a p-38 and a 109g10..and no, it did not zoom better than these 2 planes did..but what really stands out in this scenario is that when the 109 and the 38 finally stalled, the n1k was still..pointing..nose .. UP. FULL control.

But that could be attributed to SA and E differences.. pilot's perceptions of speeds ...but get this: the n1k that hung on prop (me on its controls), seeing the 109 / 38 flip over, merely nosed down to level flight , banked and TURNED with nose slightly below horizon.. perfect control. No forces giving you any kinds of problems to make the plane do what you wanted. THAT is really weird. (and yes, n1k still on wep). And this is the source, imo, of the n1k-whining: you out-fly the pilot in the n1k but the plane's weirdness defeats you..not the pilot in it.

The LA7 has a similar thing: its incredible acceleration saves a lot of low skill pilots.. but the LA7 has horrid turn rate, even worse guns and has a rather nasty stall behaviour and low speed handling. OTH, the n1k has average acceleration, but its incredible turn rate at both high and low speeds and its nonexistent stall behaviour gives any low skill pilot the upper hand.. and then add into it 4 cannons that are just a tad worse than the hispano cannon (trajectorywise) and you get yourself a plane that technically can be flown like any Wing-Commander game and come out on top.

HISPD and a few of the Nip pilots in this game are true masters in milking the N1k's advantages AND using ACM. Interestingly enough, I lasted a LOT longer when fighting these guys because they actually use ACM manouvers...resulting in a spectacular kill (me). And you compare it to well known pilots that cant get a kill unless they fly this plane, and you just see them pulling G's like crazy and spraying..with no stalls.

Offline humble

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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2003, 03:13:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
The N1K has always fascinated me...I was cruising along in a 51D at 19k, great speed.  Had one go under me, turn, and GAIN on me...wtf?  I want warp drive too

;)


Exactly

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2003, 03:23:23 PM »
This was not a "nikki bash" post...simply a comment on a readily observable trait. I could care less if anyone flies a nikki...it's a relatively easy plane to kill or avoid if your co-e (for a mojority of the plane set) It's also not a tough plane to beat in a knife fight....if your in a spit V, Hurricane, zeke, F4F or FM2.

Replying to earlier comments I didn't misjudge E state at all...I was neg E and knew it...I simply flew the best e retention move I could and observed the Nikki...when it became appropriate I evaded and disengaged and went about my business.

It's pretty easy to observe the combination of turn rate and speed and realize that in some way the nikki's flight characteristics in this specific instance allow it to out perform every other plane in the current set by a wide margin. If you disagree fine...I've flown the nikki enough to know it and use it.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2003, 03:28:16 PM »
Out of curiousity I looked up my stats for this tour...I'm 14-1 against nikki.

Again this wasn't ment as a nikki whine...or bash...just a question/comment on ONE element of the Nikki's flight model.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline slimm50

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« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2003, 03:38:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
LOL....As for "loving the nikki"....it's pretty common....especially amonst the ACM challenged.

Hey!     i resemble that remark.:p

Offline Shane

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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2003, 04:13:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
The funny thing is, how everybody acts cool and says "oh, the Nikis ain't nuthin'. I bash 'em all the time" out here on the boards.. but in the MA, get pretty much pissed and furious about how some Niki dweeb can do nothig but HO, fly only dweeb planes and etc etc. - the usual CH1 clashes.
:D


they're bashing the style - jousting - more than they're bashing the plane per se.  the "niki dweeb" is just salt in the wound.
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
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Offline Crowwe

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« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2003, 04:20:36 PM »
Like someone said before, this niki is hardly a threat when compared to its old model we used to have here. La7s on the other hand *eyeroll*

:D

Offline GODO

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« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2003, 06:32:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
As I have shown elsewhere on the BBS, mass is the primary factor in a zoom climb.


Then try a > 9000lb 190A8 (small plane, heavy buth small surfaces, and so, probably less drag than N1K2), and compare with lighter planes like spit/n1k2.

Offline Nomak

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« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2003, 06:37:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Getting any good Nomak? What's your favourite ride? Pony? You were observed flying 109's a while ago, how you like it? :)


I dont really have a particular ride I call my Fav.

Love flyn 109s and many others.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2003, 07:55:57 PM by Nomak »

Offline GODO

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Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2003, 07:41:37 PM »
So N1K2 is slow, right? Well, straight and level speed is the most common way to measure how fast is a plane, but not the only way. Speed after a 5g 180d turn also counts, and mostly when you are able to repeat that turn several times. Try to set up a loop circuit 1km long and put N1K2 and P51 on a race of 10 laps, I bet N1K2 will be the winner by far.

Offline Curval

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Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2003, 08:30:48 AM »
Uber Niki thread!

arrrggggghhhhhh

Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain