Author Topic: sad (Read 5620 times)

mrsid2 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 05, 2001, 05:06:00 PM »

Umm flyingduck is that also why Formula1 cars are extremely stiff and can hit a wall at 120mph without even bending the monocock and with drivers walking out mildly bruised?

I've always disliked the cushion zones because they seem to limit the 'survival zone' inside the passenger area. It only works if the car interior is built supertough to prevent even smallest deformation of the passenger space. Most cars lack that feature and become meat grinders at high speeds.

Of course there is development done in that area and the latest models start to look pretty good in that aspect.

FlyingDuckSittingSwan · « **Reply #31 on:** December 05, 2001, 05:19:00 PM »

Now Mr.Ripley, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Formula cars are made in two pieces. YOu have the outer shell and you have the monocoque. The outer shell which everything is attached to is designed to break away easily to disipate energy and impact. That is why if you have ever seen an F1 race they explode on impact. When you take the outer shell away you are left with a square box in which the driver sits in. Also known as the monocoque. Now, the reasoon the driver survives the high speed impact is for a number of reasons. a) The outer shell has disipated a portion of the energy from impact. b) The 3 point harnesses which hold the driver tight. c) The helmet on the driver's head.

You will notice that in an ordinary vehicle you don't often find 3 point harnesses or people wearing crash helmets.

If you were to take away crumple zones from a normal every day car, you'd have more people suffer brain haemorrhaging due to rapid deacceleration. Many traffic accidents in the 70's were fatal due to just this reason even though they were at a relatively low speed and very survivable today. All cars today are designed for impact absorption through crumple zones. Even those big Chevy trucks. Many times people contribute a big Jeep type vehicle disintegrating a normal saloon type vehicle due to the Jeeps more rigid construction, but mostly it is due down to the height because the Jeep type vehicle often has its bumper reaching roof pillars of the normal saloon, which is a very week spot and so causing major damage. In reality, even a big Chevy have crumple zones and will disintegrate if driven into a wall.

lazs1 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 05, 2001, 05:30:00 PM »

I have made it a policy to not listen to brits on subjects like automobiles, personal freedom, or dental care.
lazs

FlyingDuckSittingSwan · « **Reply #33 on:** December 05, 2001, 06:36:00 PM »

Laz:
That's why you ended up with the Ford Motor Company, OJ Simpson and Ruby Wax. You never follow good advice.

Thorns · « **Reply #34 on:** December 05, 2001, 07:21:00 PM »

Geesh Hang,

That house in Marin Co. would have multiplied in price at least 4 times by now. You could have bought a real P-51D by now...hehe. Oh well that place(Marin Co.) is too rich for me. I live on the "other" bay...affordable too.

As for you Zig.........forget about automobiles as they are only for guys seeking women. Go to the airport and find yourself an airplane, preferably a Pitts S2E or a Christen Eagle II, and buy it........then get a lawyer, cause airplanes and a wife don't mix...

After all your money is gone and your tired of it all...Aces High is still your friend.

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Thorns ]

Pongo · « **Reply #35 on:** December 05, 2001, 07:27:00 PM »

When Hang was in his 20s a real mustang could be had for 500$ and it came full of fuel too.

ra · « **Reply #36 on:** December 05, 2001, 08:28:00 PM »

When I was in my 20's a mustang ate oats.

ra

BD · « **Reply #37 on:** December 05, 2001, 08:35:00 PM »

Dumped the ex-wife, got a 2001 Audi allroad. I must smile every time I get in it. Since I stopped flying planes in real life (tm), it's the closest I've been able to get.

Oh, except for landing a King Air at Atlanta Hartsfield last spring. That was cool!

Zigrat · « **Reply #38 on:** December 05, 2001, 08:51:00 PM »

cmon ra you cant be that old.

Betown · « **Reply #39 on:** December 06, 2001, 03:18:00 AM »

Why don't you buy your wife a nice Motorbike? Like a big "o" Honda Fireblade or Suziki GSXR 1000

Intresting to see that... HAHAHA

deSelys · « **Reply #40 on:** December 06, 2001, 04:52:00 AM »

I have (for once) to agree with FDSS on this one.

American cars are good enough while your driving in a straight line....at the first curve you're in trouble

I had the pleasure a couple of years ago to drive an old Audi 200 3.0 quattro....it seemed to defy the law of inertia...

And, although I don't usually like french cars, I had to admit that the Peugeot 406 3.0 really impressed me.

Now, if you're going off-road, most of american trucks/jeeps are pretty good at it.

TPIguy · « **Reply #41 on:** December 06, 2001, 07:11:00 AM »

A4? hmmmm was that the one that had a tendancy to fly off the road at high speed? Atleast until they added the rear spoiler.

mrsid2 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 06, 2001, 07:19:00 AM »

FDSS: I seriously doubt the falling parts of the formula do anything else than put the driver at risk. The reason they fall off is that theyre made as light as possible and therefore are very fragile.

When a F1 crashes to a wall nose first, the monocoque is the first one to take the impact and therefore all those falling pieces play no meaning in the survival.

Remember Ayrton Senna who died when a part of the multilink suspension pierced his helmet and stuck in his brain?

After that they started figuring out ways to _keep_ wheels etc. in place.

I agree about the rest of course, good seat belts and spacy cockpit are the key to survival in a collision. The human body can sustain huge deacceleration if the seat and seatbelts are properly made..

F.E. aircraft seats were studied and the study showed that the seats generally were made so weak that it ripped apart at half the deacceleration-g's a human would have lived through. When that happens the chair stops being a protection and turns into giljotin.

However sudden impacts to the head usually kill which is why airbags were introduced.

Another important fact in collisions is the weight. The more your car weighs compared to your opposing crasher, the more chances are that you will just hear a thump and the lighter car flies backwards with a speed equalling of your drivespeed. In pieces of course.. That is exactly what happens when someone collides with a truck or a train.

Another point why I don't like crumple zones is that they completely destroy the car even at a small impact. It's common to see the center pillar of the car bent upwards after a medium speed collision - that means the car won't be fixable.

I've seen a brand new audi crash with a russian lada which is _not_ known for its protection, comfort or even weight..

The audi was completely leveled from its frontal part, including the engine compartment and cooler with airbags blown and seatbelts automatically tightened..
The insurance company most likely repossessed the car in exchange to a new one.

The lada was just bent from the left corner and probably needed a new headlight, tire and some metal work.

Both drivers were standing outside assessing the damage.

lazs1 · « **Reply #43 on:** December 06, 2001, 08:23:00 AM »

flyingducksitingswan (yes I know it sounds effeminate but he IS british) said... "Laz:
That's why you ended up with the Ford Motor Company, OJ Simpson and Ruby Wax. You never follow good advice.
--------------------"

No... actually you ended up with FoMoCo.. Course that was a good thing since they rescued all your car compannies and banished the prince of darkness (joe lucas) and all the other british gremlins. Wow! A Jag that doesn't leak and starts up without calling a mechanic and... The headlights work.... at night even! A dependabel jag? Blasphemy! OJ?? well, better to let him go so that he can catch the one armed man than impose some kinda "knife control".. "ruby wax"??? Must be some kinda left over lend lease thing we pawned off on you guys... You don't really use that crap do ya?
lazs

Mox · « **Reply #44 on:** December 06, 2001, 08:39:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by TPIguy:
A4? hmmmm was that the one that had a tendancy to fly off the road at high speed? Atleast until they added the rear spoiler.

No the model your talking about is the Audi TT (the Euro version). A unskilled and untrained driver bought one of the very first ones and crashed it doing well over 120mph (don't remember exact speed) on the Audobahn (sp). It's a two seat car and if I remember correctly both passengers lived.

If your not familar with the way a Quattro drives they can be a litte scary the first time you actually get the wheels to break loose. Many Porsche 911 Twin Turbo drivers wreck there cars in the same manner. My brother-in-law used to work for a Porsche/Audi dealership (he did the body work), he's got a lot of great stories about all these super rich people who wreck their $100K+ Porsche's because they don't understand what to do when you drive them hard and fast. Working in Dallas in the Turtle Creek area you cannot go a block without seeing a Ferrari, Porsche, RR, Bentley etc, it's really funny to watch a guy try to park a Diablo in a parking space labled "Compact Only". I actually saw this two weeks ago.. I ran home to get my digital camera and the guy was gone when I came back!