Author Topic: La-7  (Read 3381 times)

Offline R4M

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La-7
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2001, 06:48:00 AM »
Lol, the plane sports three 20mm cannons on the nose wich have better ballistics and hitting power than the MG151, and they say it has poor weapons.

fediddlein funny   :D.

BTW who said "it has little ammo"?...three 20mm cannons with 200rpg is "little ammo"?...

The FW190's wingroot guns carry 250rpg each, and most people say its a wooping loadout. And 200 is "little ammo"?

fediddlein funny, again   :D.

I dont know wether it should be perked or not, all I know is that it outperforms all the MA fighter planes exception made of the me262 and tempest -and it outaccelerated and outclimbs the tempest-. I dont care about it being perked, but he who says it has poor weapons and/or that it is not that good, he has no clue   :).

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

Offline aknimitz

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La-7
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2001, 08:05:00 AM »
MAND - thats absurd bro.  The armor on the La7 is no where NEAR the armor on the F6F-5.  

It has been stated once, but Ill state it again ... the planes you squeak about the La7 outrunning?  That is on the deck only.  Above about 10K, the La7 loses its speed advantage to the P51 (by about 15 MPH) AND the Dora (by about 10 MPH).  

AND if you are gonna squeak about the La7's turning/climbing ability, might as well squeak about the La5.  Identical performance, climb rate, turn rate, etc. (hell I even think the La5 might yank around a bit quicker).  Needless to say the La7 is quicker on the deck.

AND the guns do require some skill.  With the P51, I can lace out .50 cal streams from 500-700 yards with damn good lethality.  With the La7, I gotta get within 300 for deflection shots/snap shots.  If you know what you are doing, I shouldnt get to within 300 yards of yer six  :D

I dont mind perking the La7, but if you do, there is a handful of other planes that need to be perked as well.

Nim

Offline Kieran

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La-7
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2001, 08:11:00 AM »
Guess I am the exception. I think La-7's are no big deal. No way they turn better than any Yak, you can hold your own in a 51, and any Spit can make one run. It is harder to hit with the guns (in my experience) but that is probably something you have to get used to.

You can argue there are too many of them I suppose, but there you go down the path of perking everything eventually.

Offline MANDOBLE

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La-7
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2001, 08:57:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by aknimitz:
MAND - thats absurd bro.  The armor on the La7 is no where NEAR the armor on the F6F-5.

Totally agree in the real world, but I need more ammo to kill an AH La7 than a F6F.

Offline Am0n

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La-7
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2001, 09:14:00 AM »
You cant really argue that it shouldnt be perked because of the "quality of pilots flying it". If the tempest wasnt perked it would have the same "dweebs" flying it. Perk the LA7 and it will have a close, if not the same K/D ratio as the temp, or Chog.

I would like to see a light perking on it, 2-3 perks, but if that was the case you would also have to lower the perks of the F4uC becuase the LA7 is a much better AC (besides its lack of ammo).

Theres is hand full of planes that i think should have a light perking on. If you cant go out and score 2-3 perks in the LA7, SpitIX, P51D to make up for spending them, you are a gang bang dork who doesnt need to be flying it, IMO.

Offline Ghosth

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« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2001, 09:16:00 AM »
Thats because its a much smaller target.

I bet F6f is half again as big as the la7.

Offline Tac

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La-7
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »
Toad: P38L. And yes, I wouldnt mind having it perked as long as they gave me a 38J or F or H to play with.

Offline Soda

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« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2001, 10:22:00 AM »
Quote
Karnak,
Soda,
La-7 is 14 or 15mph faster tha the P-51D on the deck.

With WEP, yes, but you can't run the WEP much on the La7 for fear of running it out of fuel.  The 190D9 is 9mph faster than the same P-51D...  The Typhoon 12mph.... and the Typhoon has 4 hispanos!

The La7 is a good plane, but in my opinion certainly not better than a P51D.  Just don't get dumb and decide to fight it all the way to the deck.... if you do then the La7 has successfully executed the reverse rope-a-dope on you since you'll be low and slow right in it's lair.

I think this whole discussion is just an extention of the "runstang" issue we had many versions ago.  The La7's fight, then leave, and people get pissed off that they can't do the same.

If the argument is to perk it because it's too "good", then someone would have to point out to me how they manage to forget about the La7's many shortcomings.  Weak guns, bad vis, poor range, bad performance above 8K (which many MA fights still start over 8K, easy, I'd say average "top" alt for a furball is still in the 10-12K range).

If the argument is to perk it because it is too popular, then someone will have to also perk all the planes that are above it in popularity, namely the N1K, SpitIX and P51D.  Perking it because of popularity would only make more drivers take on the next percieved "best" ride anyway.

If the argument is to perk it because you can't find a way to deal with it in your "favorite" ride, well, that's not a reason.

-Soda
The Assassins

Offline Pyemia

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La-7
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2001, 11:31:00 AM »
Soda,La7 vis is not bad at all, not like the P51 but still good.  

and

You can run that WEP for a hell of a long time?  

and

You can't fly forever but its not like a Typhoon when it comes to endurance.

and

It might not have Hispanos, but Hispano's are only useful if you can get them on target.  You can put Hispano's on a brick, does'nt mean you gonna be able to draw a bead.

so

Give me a La7 against the P51 anyday at realistic MA altitudes.

When i'm in a Tiffie or P38, P51 is a welcome sight indeed.  La7 makes me break a sweat and swear loudly.


Zygote.  :D

Offline Nifty

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La-7
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2001, 11:47:00 AM »
Look at Deja's tour 22 stats.  Does any plane have a kill % of twice that of the next plane?  Yup, the F4U-4 has 0.19% of the total kills in the MA and the Hurri IId has 0.09%.   The Spit IX has about 35% more kills and more deaths than the P51D.  In tour 15, the CHog had over 100% more kills than the N1K2.  The CHog was responsible for over 16% of the kills, while the next planes were responsible for around 8% each (the 100% thing mentioned earlier).  That's just the numbers, and yes, numbers can be used to mean anything you want them to.   ;)  Beyond that, the F4U-1C saw only a production run of 200, and did not enter action until 1945 over Okinawa (as far I as can gather on net sources.)  So we had a late war plane, with low production numbers, that was outkilling by over 100% the #2 killer in the arena.  That pretty much got the CHog it's little price tag.

La-7, around 5700 produced, late 1943, didn't see service until 1944 I think.  Arguably the best performer under 10,000ft.  Above that alt, it's below average at best.  Good armament in close, good durability, and small target.  Shouldn't be perked, IMO, tho since there's a La5, it could handle the perking.  I'm guessing peeps would head for the Spit IX instead of the La5 though.

F. Spitfire MkIXc (with the e package selectable) entered service in 1942.  all Spit IX variants totalled about 5600, but not sure on our version.  The e package wasn't until 1943, and no one has found an accurate account of it being mated with the Merlin 61 engine we have in our Spit IX.  Personally, I think the E package should be removed from our Spit, but if not, it still shouldn't be perked.

P51D.  8000 made, saw service in 1944, arguably the most famous American fighter of WWII (tho Corsairs come in a close second thanks to the gull wings and the Black Sheep Squadron TV series.)  The armament seems to be spot on with the actual data.  She's fast, but that's about it.  I don't think she should be perked.

N1K2-J saw about 420 produced, and was a late 1944 plane.  This plane is one of the best performers the Japanese made.  They whooped me this past tour, every time I died, it seemed it was a damned George that got behind me.  Still, it shouldn't be perked, tho closest of the bunch due to late war, semi-rare plane.
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Offline Soda

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La-7
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2001, 12:19:00 PM »
The La7 vis is poor, it's nothing like the P-51, not even in the ballpark.  Sure, the P-51 is outstanding, but any number of other aircraft in the MA have better vis than the La7.  It is one of the worst, though I don't think it is necessarily 'the' worst.  It does hurt your SA though, especially to the rear.

The WEP in the La7 runs as long as the 190 and 109, a long time.  The problem is with fuel consumption.  With those planes you have drop tanks, and multiple fuel tanks to get you to the fight.  In the La7 you don't, you are always burning the main tank.  The main tank doesn't get very far on WEP.  With the Typhoon if you want to go a fair distance you pack your wing drop tanks.  Also, 1 hit to the main fuel of an La7 and you are a glider within 1 minute.  A fuel hit in a P-51, Typhoon, 190 usually just means you become a sky-writer.. no real problem other than attracting attention.  Hell, it might even help you and make you lighter in one of those other planes.

The La7 has a forward gun range, for what I would consider a 'makeable' shot of about D375.  Anything more that that and your rounds are flying all over the place (un-real considering you'd think with them all cowl mounted you'd be better off).  You also can't afford to spend the ammo on shots over that since you only have 150 rounds/gun.  That's not a very large, or long, opportunity for an La7 to fire.  Compare that to something like the P-51, or Typhoon for that matter.  Effective .50 shot range (again, aiming and expecting hits) is probably D550-D600.  I know I take those shots all the time, maybe not expecting crippling damage, but at least to put some rounds on target.  That extra ~200 yards is HUGE.  It gets worse on a tail shot, the longest La7 kill I've ever had was at D625, pure tail shot on someone who hit auto-level.  I had to set it up and spent 350 rounds firing away to get the kill.  I'd take a D625 tail shot in something with hispanos or .50s ANY time.  that's money in the bank.. with hispanos you can probably expect to amputate wings at that range within 100 rounds fired (or less).  With .50's I've made those same shots reliably out to D800... and would feel confident about landing rounds at that range.  The La7 tail is weak too... 1-2 cannon hits in that area and it's gone, the wings seem fairly tough, and pilot kills are rare, but the tail comes off just as easy as other planes.  How many of use have had D800 N1K's hammer out planes from the sky as we try and get away from them... that's the combination of the N1K acceleration and all that ammo... it's a true distance killer (as the C-Hog is).

The Tiffie and P38 are both bad matches for the La7... maybe the reason you are having problems.  the Tiffie accelerates like a dumptruck, and the P38 is missing almost 40mph on the deck as compared to the La7.  (I fly both a lot though cuz I like them too, they have style.... just look at my stats.  I bet the La7, Typhoon, and P38 are my 3 favorite rides last tour).

I'm not saying the La7 isn't a great plane, it is, but it isn't some omnipotent plane in the MA.  I fly it all the time, mixed in with a bunch of other rides, and every time I go to a plane that has .50's or hispanos my shooting % goes way up and I land kills I couldn't dream of in an La7.  I think most of the La7 mystique is from the quick short range kills it gets (those D150 snapshots that rip both wings off), or getting caught low and slow on the deck and having little chance of running away regardless of your ride.

-Soda

Offline Tac

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La-7
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2001, 12:36:00 PM »
And im saying to perk them 'cause its a late war plane with an earlier version in the game. La5 I hardly ever see. And the la5 is FAR more deadly than the la7 for turnfights and e-fighting. Sure it doesnt accel like the 7, but damn that thing is mean!.

It controlled the CHOG overuse/abuse. Maybe a cheap, cheap perking of all late war birds with early war models in-game will see the use of the same plane without the late war power.

Offline J_A_B

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La-7
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2001, 12:48:00 PM »
"Maybe a cheap, cheap perking of all late war birds with early war models in-game will see the use of the same plane without the late war power."

And which twin-engine fighter just happens to distinctly NOT have an earlier version modeled?  YES!  The FTD!

The "perk it" comments still don't chance the fact that the LA7, as with the spit in AW, is often a "one kill wonder" because of its lack of range and ammo load.  It's certainly not that creat an airplane.  A P-38 is a much more deadly arena plane IMO because it has the gas and ammo to stay up a longer time.

J_A_B

Offline Nifty

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La-7
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2001, 01:12:00 PM »
One kill wonder?   ;)  not a chance.  La7 has plenty of ammo for multi-kill sorties.  Spitfire cannons have plenty of ammo for multi-kill sorties.  Of course if you're talking about the people who have to spray n pray to get one kill, then yeah, I agree with you.   :)
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Offline Soda

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« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2001, 02:17:00 PM »
There just isn't a basis for perking the La7.  It's not the most popular plane, it doesn't have an overwhelming K/D ratio, it doesn't have one ability that places it clearly ahead of the rest by a large margin.  It isn't any later war than many others and it was made in large numbers so not rare.  Those are the standard reasons people have tried to use to explain why something should be perked.

The characteristics it has are good, some very good, but on average no more so than several other birds in this game.  It has other characteristics that are bad, some very bad (ever stalled a La7... ever recovered from that low?).

I always consider the La7's best ability was it's defense.  It can dash out low under the fight and escape when the situation might look bad.  It can turn JUST well enough to give some of the BnZ'rs fits.  It can accelerate just well enough to get away from the TnB'rs guns before they get a good shot.  Those were its main assets, not it's offensive abilities.

The La5 is a good ride, not popular in the MA, but a good ride.  It will walk away from a Spit/N1K/Zero down low just like an La7.

-Soda