Author Topic: the lazs MA strat idea... (Read 5927 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #60 on:** December 04, 2003, 02:38:55 PM »

muck and lepaul... it is u who are advocating animosity between the fighters and the fluffers not I..

Think about it... I am giving the fluffers targets that are not specific to fighters... in other words... with my idea they have a target that is "strat" that affects the way the war is "won" that has meaning.... you on the other hand well...

you guys continue to ***** because you don't have enough effect on the fighters! see the difference? you say that the fighters should be slaves to the fluffs... you feel that the only reason for fighters is to escort or intercept the fluffs..

believe it or not.... many/most players want to be flying fighters against other fighters... some like to fly fluffs and some like to escort/kill fluffs...

no way I can see what you want as anything but a plea to force people to play with you who would rather fight other fighters.... the fighter jocks like affecting gameplay one plane at a time. My style of gameply doesn't hurt you one bit yet you would make it so that I couldn't even take off from a field because some talentless mouse weilder managed to milkrun all the hangers.

lazs

Rude · « **Reply #61 on:** December 04, 2003, 02:53:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MetaTron
No lazs, the point is that you see them as seperate entities when in fact they should be working together as a single force.

So folks that play to fight in fighters should have to play the way you want them to? Fighter sorties should be flown to accomplish a common goal of winning the war, escorting buffs, jabo, etc....no simple air to air for the sake of having fun?

LePaul · « **Reply #62 on:** December 04, 2003, 03:00:39 PM »

Mouse weilder?

Hey man, X-45 here.

Lazs, we're all for trying your strat idea. Tilt had some good ideas. Your comments in the past sweepingly stereotype all who fly buffs as fluffers out to ruin your fun. I fly fighters a lot, I engage buffs and fighters alike. I also like the buffs to be able to put iron on targets to help the advance...of the strat game.

If I see a buff over a base or HQ, I intercept. Not run to the BBS and say how buffs ruin the game for you and should be weakened or lessened.

Muck and I are trying to point out that there are people who enjoy the bombers and fly them in the role they were envisioned as. We arent trying to eliminate or weaker your fighter roles. You come to altitude, we'll shoot back, guranteed.

Sure, let's try yuour idea out...how's your map coming?

Batz · « **Reply #63 on:** December 04, 2003, 03:18:23 PM »

Muckmaw has made several threads on how hard and unappreciated fluffers are in ah. Lepaul has few oldie but goodies as well.

I was searching for thread where muck complained he had a long "bomber mishun ruined by a 163". I only looked through the 1st page of search results.

Anyway in this one thread just a few months ago he is going on about how he needs "meaningful targets". HT himself asks him to define what meaningful targets are and his reply

Quote

In my opinion, targets "mean Something" when they have a direct impact on the situation at hand, ie. Fighter Hangars at a base under siege, or an enemy CV that is launching attacks on a friendly base

That pretty much sums up all fluffers. They want to be impact playazzzzz.

If they can't impact the rest of us they aren’t happy. Anyone looking for a good laugh search some of these older posts.

Quote

there's a difference between suicide-jabo-dweebs

No there isn't. They both want the same thing. That is to have an impact on everyone else. They also want thing like "organiztion" and mishuns" etc... Fluffers were the suicide jabos of old.

Muckmaw can tell you about well meaning suicide mission dudes. I don't want to start another hate thread on one particular squad but I have seen them do it enough and i am sure muckmaw has as well.

With Laz's suggestion they fluffer may win the war but it would be a hollow victory if he is ignored.

Toad · « **Reply #64 on:** December 04, 2003, 03:46:50 PM »

Lotta truth here for the strat guys to try to accept, except they never seem to "get it".

I'm a pure furballer; admit it, like it, wouldn't have it any other way.

But I want YOU to have fun too.. do whatever you like, whenever you like. You're all just targets of varying degrees to me.

Like they say about submarines: two kinds of naval vessels - submarines and targets. Same for aircraft: fighters and targets.

Yet, I absolutely don't care how convoluted and "deep" and "interesting" and "special" you make the strat and "war winning". Do whatever the bloody heck you like. Make it harder than a rich man getting into Heaven if that's what you want.

Just leave me enough freakin' fuel to fight in an early war plane! Let the minimum be 50% at all bases, no matter what. Bombout all the FH's... I'll move gladly. But let me MOVE to a place where's there's enough fuel to fly and fight.

That's it. Well.. one other thing.. get rid of the idiotic night phase. These are day VFR fighters and the airwar was PRIMARILY a day war.

Thank you, and good night.

SlapShot · « **Reply #65 on:** December 04, 2003, 05:04:54 PM »

"Muckmaw can tell you about well meaning suicide mission dudes. I don't want to start another hate thread on one particular squad but I have seen them do it enough and i am sure muckmaw has as well."

Batz,

As a past member of the squad in question, let me assure you that the MAW never ever attacks a base with the intentions of hit the target and auger.

Every MAW pilot, in a MAW mission, has every intention of striking the target and surviving. 40Dog nor any other CO in the MAW has ever given the order to run a suicide mission. at least when I was around and CO of the MAW Blacksheep squad. Suicide was not an option in my squad nor any other MAW squad.

Batz · « **Reply #66 on:** December 04, 2003, 05:16:50 PM »

I believe you and I and several others argued about this subject before and lets just say you guys see/saw one thing and me/mine saw something else.

We can chalk it up to 15 + accidental augers chasing after those illusive fighter hangers.

Anyway, I spent my load sometime ago in these threads. I dont know why I continue to reply. HT will address it or he won't.

mold · « **Reply #67 on:** December 04, 2003, 07:05:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
That's it. Well.. one other thing.. get rid of the idiotic night phase. These are day VFR fighters and the airwar was PRIMARILY a day war.

Yeah I agree. WTF is up with the night stuff. You can't see a damn thing, except for the icons...but of course icons destroy the whole point (if there was one at all). Lose the night, I say.

muckmaw · « **Reply #68 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:44:47 AM »

Batz-

I'm flattered you spent so much time looking up my past posts.

Meanwhile, Slapshot, who is an ardent and skilled fighter pilot, and former MAW can attest that suicide's simply are not what we do. You can believe whatever it is you like, but it's simply not the case.

MAW auger on one occasion, and one occasion only. If it's squad night, and the pilots are spread out all over the map, we are asked to auger our rides if a mission we're supposed to be in is about to launch.

We have had "Unintentional Augers". Here's a funny story. 40 set up an HQ run with about 25 MAW fly D-25's. (Not my first choice.) Anyway, we fly for about 45 mins, fully loaded, climbing to about 25K. We fly formation all the way, and at the HQ, we peel off with great precision to begin the dive bombing run. Apparently, myself, and about half the pilots were not all that familiar with dive bombing in this plane. Perhaps we got too excited and we're not watching out airpseed indicator.

At any rate, you can imagine what happened next. 10 planes came in like meteors.

So to someone on the outside, that would look like a mass auger. In reality, it was just an occurance of mass stupidity.

Understand what I say about my game. I've no axe to grind.

When I'm flying a long buff run, I like to be intercepted by fighters. It makes the run more entertaining and challenging, and more of what I imagine WWII was like for bombers.

I do not like getting swarmed by a horde of 163's because it's not realistic. How many of those were in service? It seems silly to have every plane over the target being 163's. I'd much rather see 190's or 109's.

I really do not care to interrupt the fighter duelers. Half the time, I'm one of them, for god's sake.

So how do you make level bombers more useful in AH without affecting the fighter duel thats going on?

It's pretty dull just going to a strat target when your unopposed, and the only thing you get for your efforts is a message saying "blah blah won the war".

It's not winning the war that matters to me. It's teamwork. It's running a mission that everyone enjoys, and that mission resulting in either a devastating defeat or SOME type of affect on something.

This is a tough situation. I really do not know what the answer is.

sax · « **Reply #69 on:** December 05, 2003, 08:04:50 AM »

Thier just jelous Muck cause yu guys still havin fun

muckmaw · « **Reply #70 on:** December 05, 2003, 08:11:43 AM »

Sax-

Saw you in the MA on Tues I think it was. Always a pleasure.

I'm just getting back into the game after 2 months off.

We had one nice mission on Tuesday that relighted my passion for the game. Not 100% back yet, but getting there.

All I need is maybe one really tough drawn out 1 on 1 dogfight (Where I win for once) and one really great bomber mission and I'll be hooked again.

mold · « **Reply #71 on:** December 05, 2003, 03:21:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by muckmaw
So how do you make level bombers more useful in AH without affecting the fighter duel thats going on?

I think the answer to this question is that we don't NEED to make bombers useful in order for it to be worthwhile. Escort, interception, buffing, and turretting are all fun in and of themselves, without serving a goal of winning a war. In fact these things can be more fun than air superiority melee. Variety is the spice of life. So bomb or escort for it's own sake, and those who like to intercept will do so. There are plenty who like to intercept, I think. Hell, I think the best thing to do is get a bunch of buffs/scorts together and announce a raid on the city on ch 1. Then the interceptors have some time to get up and you have a fun fight.

As far as strat goes...well I like strat games too, but it seems to me that there is not much strategy in any MA CTF game. It seems to me that tactical plane/GV skills have a much greater impact on the strat winner, than any military strategy. Is there really any military strategy involved here?

AKIron · « **Reply #72 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:13:38 PM »

If you build it, they will come.

lazs2 · « **Reply #73 on:** December 06, 2003, 11:15:21 AM »

Hmm... I noticed tilt advocated perking bombs over a certain lbs.... I was probly the first to do so. I believe my suggestion was met with great animosity from the suicide jabo folks and "chessmasters of the sky" who wanted to have more effect on the figh... er... game.

lazs

Mini D · « **Reply #74 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:20:03 PM »

You will not have true military strategy in any game where attrition is not considered and respawning in an entirely different location is allowed. It's not chess when your pieces can suddenly appear anywhere on the board or reapear after they've been taken. This is not for the MA. ToD may help, but to be honest, we'll just be thinking tactically there too. The strategy will be dictated from someone else... as it should be.

We do, however, have game strategy in the MA. That's where you take the rules of the game and figure out how to make them work in order to win. This is not really the problem with the game. The problem is that people don't really do things to win the game... they do things to get instant gratification. Lazs is just as bad at this as any of the suicide jabo. Suicide furball is no better.

It's just funny to see one stupid behavior criticizing another stupid behavior. It's like watching a "furballer" that won't leave his CV ack typing insults on Channel 1 to any "strat" guys that try unsuccessfully to bomb it.

MiniD