Author Topic: 57 hells angles arrested in "gang" raid.. (Read 3954 times)

Maniac · « **Reply #45 on:** December 05, 2003, 03:26:22 PM »

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think you are arguing for a straw man... but thats just me.

Not just you.... As i said before, this has to be a troll on lazs part...

lazs2 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 05, 2003, 03:35:30 PM »

MT... in none of your examples was the BATF named... they did not have an outdoor press conference with black and hispanic gang trophies spread out for the media. The raids were small and by local and state authorites it would appear.

I could be wrong but.... show me how the BATF is earning their money.... show me how they are going after the biggest gangs in the country in any meaningful way... Show me the press conference with blac/hispanic trophies spread out.

What are they doing to earn their money?

If you have one type of gang that has dozens of groups numbering in the 10's of thousands and contoling entire cities.... and another group of gangs with members in the hundreds .... why should they be treated equally? the biggest problem should get the most resources.. for every HA raid we should see 100 black or hisp[anic raids. How many murders in the country are attributed to biker gangs compared to say black and hispanic gangs? surely you can see that?

lazs

Creamo · « **Reply #47 on:** December 06, 2003, 07:21:33 AM »

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Originally posted by Gaylord
Creamo is such a dreamy name... I'd like to take him for a motorcycle ride on a bumpy road!

I don't like the ATF, nor Navy boys. Weird and extra fresh don't help your cause, sorry.

lazs2 · « **Reply #48 on:** December 06, 2003, 11:37:42 AM »

come on guys... the BATF is a very large and expensive outfit. We are paying for it over and above our regular police FBI and CIA..

surely we can get some examples of the good they have done? Maybe they stopped someone from smoking? Or shut down a still? Oh wait... we have police and tresury for that..

Hve they been working day and night on this huge HA raid since the Waco disaster? Constant research and ninja like infiltration for the last half decade have resulted in the bust of 57 HA's and getting a couple of ounces of meth off the street plus some legal firearms held illegally (possibly)...

meanwhile.... be careful you don't get lost and wander into the wrong neigborhood in L.A. Legal or not... you best be packin.

lazs

Creamo · « **Reply #49 on:** December 06, 2003, 11:40:18 AM »

surely we can get some examples of the good they have done?

TY.

Mini D · « **Reply #50 on:** December 06, 2003, 11:42:01 AM »

Lazs, if it's inner city it's going to be local enforcement. That's the way jurisdiction works. If it's between state, it's going to be ATF. Waco was kicked off because of a fruadulant interstate arms sale. Ruby ridge because of the shooting of two federal forrest rangers. This raid because it was simultaneous multi state.

The "what about them?!?" argument is based solely on the principal that behavior and punishment is trying to be excused because there may be someone else out there doing the same thing. The ATF did not shut down completely to focus on the hell's angels lazs. They are looking at other places too. You're the one focussing on one of the places they hapened to be and criticizing it.

MiniD

lazs2 · « **Reply #51 on:** December 06, 2003, 11:52:09 AM »

deja... I am in no way trying to excuse biker gang behavior... far from it... as I have said, there is no love lost between me and several oulaw gangs. I was explaining that the biker gangs are harmless dinosours compared to the real gangs.

as for interstate... allmost all black and hispanic gangs have memberships in several states. They also travel between borders. they also traffic across borders of countries and states. Their members have been arrested at borders of other states.

The L.A. gang team was recently shut down due to ACLU pressure. Members were threatened with long prison terms (u don't want to be a cop in prison) unless they ratted othe rmembers of the team... the BATF doesn't want any part of that action.

we could save a bunch of dough and not be any worse off if we disbanded them.

lazs

Mini D · « **Reply #52 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:03:21 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
deja... I am in no way trying to excuse biker gang behavior... far from it... as I have said, there is no love lost between me and several oulaw gangs. I was explaining that the biker gangs are harmless dinosours compared to the real gangs.

Lazs, calling them harmless and pointing to other people are saying two things: 1) You're excusing/dismissing their behavior 2) You're saying "what about them?!?" when pointing to other gangs. I've read what you've said and you continue to say the same thing over and over again.

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as for interstate... allmost all black and hispanic gangs have memberships in several states. They also travel between borders. they also traffic across borders of countries and states. Their members have been arrested at borders of other states.

What about them?!?

Do you know that the ATF has never had any involvement with them lazs? Or are you just assuming it because it fits into your neet "they're just going after the white guys" accusations.

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The L.A. gang team was recently shut down due to ACLU pressure. Members were threatened with long prison terms (u don't want to be a cop in prison) unless they ratted othe rmembers of the team... the BATF doesn't want any part of that action.

This has nothing to do with the ATF lazs. The fact that you bring it up says something else completely. You are tucking the "white" vs "black" issues away as if it's a score card and using that against the ATF no matter what team scored the points. The ATF did not shut that organization down. The ACLU did not shut it down. The LA police did... unless it was unconstitional. Weren't you the one saying you didn't like the patriot act or any real invasion into your privacy? I guess you don't really mind it against blacks?

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we could save a bunch of dough and not be any worse off if we disbanded them.

lazs

Disbanding them wouldn't cost us anything. Enforcing the "disbanding" would cost us every penny we're spending now and then some.

MiniD

lazs2 · « **Reply #53 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:16:21 PM »

calling them harmless dionosours COMPARED to the other gangs is indeed valid. If you are trying to stop illegal behavior then obviously you would try to get the biggest offenders. COMPARED to the other gangs of any color... the biker gangs are irrelevant and eaily handled by local and state authorities. It is local and state authorities that have brought em down to the pissant level that they are at now. Now that they are toothless... the brave BATF jumps in.

I don't know if the BATF has involvement in black or hispanic gangs deja... you don't either because.... well.... because they don't have open air press conferences with black and hispanic gang trophies. we do see their (lol) efforts at Waco and the HA thing tho don't we? If pointing out that they are afraid of black and hispanic groups and target toothless white groups is racist... so be it.. I guess by your definition that I am a racist.

The L.A. unit was shut down by the ACLU pressure... paint it any way you like but if not for the ACLU they would still be operating. I am not for the partriot act or for police powers that exceed the constitution... I probly think the gang unit went too far but.... There is a need for such a unit.

Crimes that would make the rapist in another thread puke are being commited by these huge gangs... people are advocating torture for that sicko..

oh... by disbanding I meant disbanding the BATF.

lazs

Mini D · « **Reply #54 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:21:29 PM »

lazs... the fact that you use the term harmless speaks volumes. You'll continue to use it... and I'll continue to point it out. COMPARED is irrelevant. HARMLESS is a lie.

MiniD

Thorns · « **Reply #55 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:22:18 PM »

"surely we can get some examples of the good they have done?"
Written by Creamo

Didn't they save the Rolling Stones from a mean boy at Altimont Speedway?

Thorns

lazs2 · « **Reply #56 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:26:16 PM »

admit it deja.. if I were to say the level of mercury in the water is harmless compared to the nitrate level you would have no problem... you are simply a PC tool on this one... something can be harmful and at the same time comparatively harmless.

it boils down to how you want to allocate resources. you appear to be taking the path of the PC tool. I am surprised that you have taken it to such an extreme tho.

lazs

Mini D · « **Reply #57 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:27:57 PM »

Completely irrelevant lazs.

Admitt it, you don't even know what crimes the "harmless bikers" were committing when you used the term. You just know that black and hispanic gangs do much worse. Sorry, but that is a bull**** argument no matter how adamant you are about it.

MiniD

lazs2 · « **Reply #58 on:** December 06, 2003, 12:28:02 PM »

thorns... I meant the good that the BATF has done not the pissant biker gangs.

lazs

Creamo · « **Reply #59 on:** December 06, 2003, 01:12:14 PM »

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Originally posted by Mini D
Waco was kicked off because of a fruadulant interstate arms sale. Ruby ridge because of the shooting of two federal forrest rangers. .

MiniD

You avacado, lol.