Author Topic: Amazing P38 flight characteristics (Read 2329 times)

Howitzer · « **Reply #45 on:** December 09, 2003, 02:25:06 PM »

I'm just learning the 38, but I have learnt this much as far as 51 vs. 38 (at least for me right now), if I'm at cruising speed lets say 300 mph, say at 4k, and a 38 comes along co-alt, I may try setting up one high speed pass with it, but thats all, if you miss, just keep on going because if that 38 knows what he's doing he's going to get you slow or stall your *** then pop you. If you don't have a respect for that 38 when you come across it, you will learn real fast if there is an experienced pilot at the controls.

--Howitzer

davidpt40 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 09, 2003, 05:29:33 PM »

Sorry Bulz.

Will someone duel me in the DA? I just want to test a few things. I will fly P-51, someone else will fly P-38.

At 10,000 feet, the P38 will do about 375mph with war emergency power. The Mustang will do about 410mph. Thats a pretty big speed difference. Enough to give the P-51 a healthy advantage.

Urchin · « **Reply #47 on:** December 09, 2003, 06:14:23 PM »

That 25 mph speed advantage doesnt help the runstang driver shoot the P-38.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #48 on:** December 09, 2003, 06:55:58 PM »

Its 35mph and yes it does.

thrila · « **Reply #49 on:** December 09, 2003, 07:10:48 PM »

Not really, it'll help you to runaway though. If you use the speed to disengage to return later with an adv the p38 can just climb while you extend.

Ecliptik · « **Reply #50 on:** December 09, 2003, 08:40:56 PM »

Try and see if you can follow the 38 into a double or triple immel even with a 35mph speed advantage. I think not.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #51 on:** December 09, 2003, 08:52:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by davidpt40
Sorry Bulz.

Will someone duel me in the DA? I just want to test a few things. I will fly P-51, someone else will fly P-38.

At 10,000 feet, the P38 will do about 375mph with war emergency power. The Mustang will do about 410mph. Thats a pretty big speed difference. Enough to give the P-51 a healthy advantage.

As long as you keep nice and level it will give you the advantage. Go into a climb or even a zoom climb and the P-38 will bite you in the ass.

Here's a film of a duel that I had with someone that was flying a P-51D that tried to rope me in a duel even though I was at a lower IAS speed than the P-51. You'll even see by the other guy's comments he too was surprised that he got nailed.

AKAK vs. P-51D

Ack-Ack

Ecliptik · « **Reply #52 on:** December 09, 2003, 10:25:04 PM »

Heh, that film just goes to show how incredulous pilots will be even after they've seen a thing happen before their eyes.

I love how he claims that he was doing 300 at the top of the spiral and that he never stalled, when the film shows him doing about 150 tas and clearly stalling.

OIO · « **Reply #53 on:** December 10, 2003, 11:59:36 AM »

Its a matter of your perception when you put the 38 vs the pony in vertical.

Next time you fly a pony, see at what speed you tell yourself 'time to vertical'. I believe you will find this to be when you are above 450mph.

The 38, in contrast, resorts to vertical manouvering at almost any speed, even 100mph.

If you put a 38 and a pony at = speeds and go vertical, the pony will come out so behind you'd think it won 5th place in 2-man race. But in combat, the P51 pilots start their verticals with a rather comfortable speed advantage.

davidpt40: You can retain control of the 38 past 420mph (compress speed) in 2 ways:

1) barrell rolls before lockup speeds and keep barrel rolling past compression speed: This is one technique that got me called a cheater many times. Simply put, if you following a con into a dive..say, the P51 or a 190, and you are under 10k ft... you know they will do a 'straight' dive.. aka nose down... then they pull up to re-engage after they get 'separation'.

by barrel rolling past compression the 38 retains full control..as long as you keep barrel rolling.

8
8
8 (you)
8
8

l
l
l (them)
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This keeps your speed just under 500mph and you are still chasing them... the p51 and 190 will pull a bit higher than 500mph in a dive, but they too must pull up to avoid the ground and their controls also get stiff.

And thats when you nail them. As THEY pull up, their controls are stiff.. yours are perfect. Since the 51/190 gained a bit of separation, you will usually be d1.2 away or so when they pull up.. you keep barrel rolling but you pull up your nose, on a pure lead persuit of the 190/51.

And so, as their controls are stiffened, you cut inside their 'turn' (pulling up is a vertical 'turn') , close in quick, and before you enter your gun range, lower your throttle to like 20% or just cut it. the 38's brick-like drag and your own barreling will allow you to level and shoot the 51/190 without locking up as your plane slows down under compression speed.

Then watch how they claim you followed them in a powerdive and claim you did 600mph or some other **** comment of the sort.

2) Rudderring. This method doesnt allow you to retain control of the nose up/down movement (that will be locked up), but with rudder and rolling you can make the 38 go up or down during the dive, change its direction if you will.

mos · « **Reply #54 on:** December 10, 2003, 03:38:08 PM »

That's a great ascii diagram. Perfectly described what you were trying to say.