Friday's set up........

[Shane]

Originally posted by brady
The C hog is being left out not because of it's potential distructive capabalitys, but because it is uber, thats why it was perked in the MA, the ease with which it does everything (killing and distruction) is the reasion, as it was the reasion HTC perked it.  

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzztttttttttttttttttttttttt!!

WRONG![/b]

not to mention a totally self-contradictory statement.

CT=left out not to destruction ability, but due to uberness.
MA=perked due to uberness because of destruction ability.

it was perked in the MA because every freekin' dweeb was in one.
constantly.... over an extended period of time. do some research on this matter.

and the MA perk price on it now is laughably small, but effective.

add it to the setup... perk it at 2-3 perkies.

[Mister Fork]

Originally posted by scJazz
Never said his time wasn't valuable Fork. What I said was...

1) He doesn't know what he's talking about
2) He is inflexible to the point of foolishness
3) I'd rather have Jester do the setup because at least you can talk to him

Shane/scJazz et all concerned, you're all experts in CT setups and side balancing?  Really? Strange, your not on the CT staff.  

Point 1
PTO setups are ALWAYS hard to balance. If we threw in every historical plane available, the IJN and the Japanese Army would have two modern fighter planes to fly (Zeke and George) versus the P-38L, P-47D-11, P-47D-25, P-47D30, P-51B, P-51D, F4U-1C,F4U-D,F6F-6, and the FM2.

Umm...that's two choices versus ten. Unbalanced like an elephant and a mouse on a tetter-totter.

For balancing sake, we're not including a lot of aircraft. When HTC adds more Japanese fighter aircraft, we'll add more USN and Amry/Air Force planes.

Point 2
You're all looking a gifted horse in the mouth and calling the kettle black at the same time. Every once in a while, a setup causes a lot of arguements back and forth. I also recognize you're complaining because you care about the setup. Let Brady do his job to balance the arena.

You bash Brady, get his back up, then get your knickers in a knot when he tries to counter his points to a crowd that unfortunately is a bit brutal.

If you think we're doing a bad job, volunteer to join the CT staff and put your money where your mouth is... your free time.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Mister Fork
If you think we're doing a bad job, volunteer to join the CT staff and put your money where your mouth is... your free time.

-Sik

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Mister Fork

Brady's volunteering his time to set this map up, which by the way will take a few hours. Setups are very time consuming and he's spending his free time to help all you guys.

Time is money and when someone gives it away for free, please respect that the CT staff is giving it away in bunches here in the CT. [/B]

My time is money too, handsomehunk.

I'm tired of hearing the same old sad "We're here sacrificing ourselves just so all of you can have more fun so stfu and let us do whatever the hell we want to with our sandbox" crap from you everytime Brady or anybody gets negative feedback. Again ... if it's so damned hard on yas ... quit. There've been several players volunteer their own expensive time to fill in.

btw ... if Brady wasn't going to the trouble of making the ship toughness paper and the shore batteries and ack toughness plutonium to "balance" things ... it would probably take a lot less of his expensive time.

Thanks and have a good day.

 

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Easyscor
ROLF

All this plane whinning and poking sticks in Brady's eye.  I haven't seen an unfair setup in the CT yet and we have to fly the Boston IIIs far more than I'd like but you won't hear us complain about it.

As for Brady not listening, he added the B-26 to this very setup when it was pointed out our squad would have to fly Peggys and sink all the Allied CVs.  Be glad he saw the need to stop that or you wouldn't have any CVs to fly from.

He didn't add it, handsomehunk. He forgot to list it.

[scJazz]

Originally posted by brady
Givien the Allies Signastudmuffinant advantages in spead and ordance delevery abalitys in this present set up, I feal that adding the Hog and the -4 would realy be unjustifiable in the present set up( the later more so than the former given that they were operational at the very end of the battle and got only 9 kills for entire war.)

Originally posted by brady
The C hog is being left out not because of it's potential distructive capabalitys, but because it is uber, thats why it was perked in the MA, the ease with which it does everything (killing and distruction) is the reasion, as it was the reasion HTC perked it.

Just because I dont agree with a point a player makes does not make me inflexable, their are plenty of examples of me tweaking things one way or another in many of my set up's based on observations by players and staff, to back this up.

OK make up your mind please. First you said that the F4U-1C is too fast and way too good at JABO these are both quantifiable values as I have quantified for you. Then you said that the plane is too Uber which is a subjective statement and perhaps not really quantifiable. If it is too quantifiable perhaps it can be quantified as being effectively similar to other aircraft which you do put in your Okinawa setup. In a new twist you throw out the fact that the F4U-1C is perked in the MA for a reason.

I'll refer you back to my post with all the math and quantifiable values. I'll also add further comments to you new points.

1) Just what in the heck is Uber anyway??? In translation it is shown to be the same as great or super. Anyone could just as easily refer to the N1K2-Js ability to turn on a dime and unload a face full of the second most uber 20mm cannon available. Certainly one of the top 5 planes with this uber capability.

2) OK you brought up the subject of the MA I didn't. Since you did I'll remind you that the hardness settings of the MA are not the hardness settings you typically use for this setup.

SBs: 5k
CAs: 4k
DDs, CRs: 2k
AAA: 50lbs
Hangers: 3k
Fuel, Ammo, Troops, Dar, Buildings, etc: 500lbs (I'm guessing about this one don't remember you ever actually stating it.)

In the MA a F4U-1C can wipe out a Hanger in a single pass fire the rockets, drop the bombs, and tweak the cannon for about 1 second and boom, gone. Your hangers are harder by 10% in fact just enough harder that only the expert Hog JABO sticks will be able to pull it off. Those less skilled will face plant at a considerable portion of Mach. Actually hell on this item alone I'd like to see the F4U-1C included. I'll spend hours in the Tower just watching them rain out of the sky. The other technique that was made famous in the MA for dealing with CAs was to have a pair of F4U-1C fly kamikaze missions The two together stood a reasonable chance of blasting it out of the water and even had cannon to back themselves up if they missed with some of the ORD. 4 F4U-1Cs could destroy the CA using guns alone. This really hosed up Carrier battles at sea. Of course... in your setup there are no IJN CA task forces so this isn't really a problem. Even better you lower ship hardness so that any plane can do it. Hell even N1Ks stand a good chance of wasting the CRs. Last a single F4U-1C could cause a lot of problems for a small airfield in single passes you could watch as every bit of fuel on the base was blasted by 1 crazed pilot in the MA. Larger airfields aren't much more secure in the MA. The same pilot could lay waste to fuel if he were good. Perhaps bringing a wingman pretty much assures success. Well darn look at the Okinawa maps. To say that those bases have extremely good supplies is an understatement. I looked quickly at two bases in the map. The smallest had the following...

7 Fuel
5 Ammo
4 Troops
15 AAA
2 SBs

I doubt that a single F4U-1C pilot can wipe out that much stuff to pork the base. A single P47-D30 can't do it and it has more droppable ORD!!! A squadron of either could pull it off 4 pilots working together in a coordinated strike? Yah. Of course hell that just means a target rich environment filled with heavies!

Last if you don't want them used as suicidal JABOs perk 'em! 5 Perks each and the incidence of crazed JABO runs drops to a really low value. Better yet they will be less likely to HO you! This is exactly why they are perked in the MA! In the Okinawa setup in the CT I've shown just how much less effective than a P47 they are in this role though.

Finally, I honestly can not remember a time when you considered one of our suggestions. Really... totally evades me when this happened last!

Look I know the IJ forces get screwed on plane availability. Substitute some stuff dang it! Ju-88s for med bombers, 109s or 205s or some other such hi altitude buff hunters. Dang if you want you can bloody well remove a few US AC. Ditch the damn Jug so when we argue about this you won't get confused by the JABO issue! P47s are included in plenty of ETO setups anyway.

Do not remove the Hellcat as it has nothing to do with any of this! The freaking Hog sucks anyway! So much happier in my kitty!

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Mister Fork
Shane/scJazz et all concerned, you're all experts in CT setups and side balancing?  Really? Strange, your not on the CT staff.  

Point 2
You're all looking a gifted horse in the mouth and calling the kettle black at the same time.

If you think we're doing a bad job, volunteer to join the CT staff and put your money where your mouth is... your free time.

1. Vote Bug. Gonna happen? Not as long as the current staff has input on who their replacements are.

2. Again .... it's not "gifted horse." The saying isn't about a circus horse ... it's about a horse that's a gift. That makes it "gift horse." Meaning if you receive a horse as a gift, don't be too picky. And all you're really saying there is "since we volunteered to do this stfu and let us do any damned thing we want to with our sandbox."

There's not a single damned CT staffer that volunteered for the job against their will. If you didn't enjoy it, I fuggin' guarantee you wouldn't have stuck with it a week. And I don't give a flip if you're monetarily reimbursed for your time or not. That doesn't alleviate you from the responsibility you have to administrate the arena in a way that makes it enjoyable for all ... to the best of your ability. That means both sides. That means making changes if you get negative feedback from the majority. Especially if you get it from both sides.

3. Again. Vote Bug. Gonna happen? Not as long as the current staff has input on who their replacements are.

[Batz]

There's 2 or 3 cms that are hanging on as reserves. Maybe you should ask them to clear out and make room for you. I don't know about the cms picking their replacements. When I left I suggested they grab Soulyss. But they didn't.

Have you called HT and asked that he consider a CT CM rotation?

What did he say?

Anyway
Vote Eskimo
the ETO
is the way to go!!!

[Skyfoxx]

I wouldn't mind seeing the 110G subbed for the Ki45 at some point. The speeds are close, the armament is a bit off but it would not be a huge stretch imo.


Vote TheBug

[Arlo]

La-7 for the Ki-100!

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Batz
There's 2 or 3 cms that are hanging on as reserves. Maybe you should ask them to clear out and make room for you. I

Hey ... it's not like everyone didn't know all that "STFU, we're volunteers! If you know so much volunteer yourself!" crap was just that.

[Slash27]

Shane/scJazz et all concerned, you're all experts in CT setups and side balancing? Really? Strange, your not on the CT staff.

Yeah, what do you guys know? Stupid players. Always bringing up "facts" and "statistics". Why dont you just shut up and play like the CT staff thinks you should?

[brady]

I never said it was faster or caried a heaver payload, the whole allied plane set is this way for the most part, they have it realy good in this regard, so adding the C hog would just make it even more outa wack do to it's inhearent strengths.

 It is not going to be added I dont care what numbers you throw at me, it is a judgment call and I am making it, I dont realy care that your not seeing my way a lot of folks never will nore should they, it is the nature of creating CT set up's not everyone will be happy all the time.

 If you dont like go fly in the MA.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Mister Fork
Shane/scJazz et all concerned, you're all experts in CT setups and side balancing?  Really? Strange, your not on the CT staff.

HERRING [/size]

as a player i'm as expert at setups and side balancing as any CT staffer. your only edge would be knowing the ins/outs of actually setting up remotely via whatever tool HTC has provided for that.
just because one "volunteers" it doesn't mean one must become a rigid, blinders-wearing jackhole. and not all are. brady is too inflexible to player input because it's progressing to the point of open hostilities,  and perhaps this is making him more resistent to considering these suggestions. perhaps it's time for brady to take a break.


Point 1
PTO setups are ALWAYS hard to balance.
For balancing sake, we're not including a lot of aircraft. When HTC adds more Japanese fighter aircraft, we'll add more USN and Amry/Air Force planes.

so do what you already do, highlight certain operations/aircraft, just do it with a little more varity than the same old tired f4f, fm2, p40. the 38's are almost never, ever included in a PTO setup and it was one plane that had a huge impact in the PTO.

do hogs/cats vs george, tony, zeke5.. add the chog and f4u4, perk them 2-5 points.  tweak target hardness to minimize the non-existent point of uber-destructo capability. okiwana... blacksheep... bong and mcguire's milieu... the ponys and jugs later in the war. just limit the allies to a few certain types. i think most who would fly axis could deal with it. i know i could.

the jug/tony setup a while back was quite enjoyable and the jug could hold it's own vs the tony, even at a slow tnb.

Point 2
Every once in a while, a setup causes a lot of arguements back and forth. I also recognize you're complaining because you care about the setup. Let Brady do his job to balance the arena.

ever notice the loudest arguments usually revolve around brady's setups? perhaps many think brady is not quite balancing it in a way that many would find acceptable?


If you think we're doing a bad job, volunteer to join the CT staff and put your money where your mouth is... your free time.

and should we be allowed to vote which CM we think is doing the least well and have him step aside to make room for someone who *is* interested? how much input does current staff have in selecting a new CMer? does HTC have any input or do they just take your recommendation?

fwiw, i generally never whine about setups. i will at times make a suggestion and not get all bent out of shape if it's not implemented.

i am, however, seeing a lot of animosity being built up by the players vs certain staff.  

here's something to mull over.  we're (all) paying customers. a handful are "volunteers." i honestly don't think it'd take a whole lot of effort (coordinated) to have HTC look into things and see if any chnages are called for in the CT.

personally i don't particularly care, as i mentioned - i can take it or leave it. but.... there seem to be a growing number who are getting a little frustrated. without them, you'd have nothing to volunteer for, so to speak.

[Shane]

Originally posted by brady
If you dont like go fly in the MA.

no... if they don't like it, they could start an email campaign to have HTC reconsider your ability to maintain good customer relations and make sound judgements in your "volunteer" position.

not that i care one way or another.