I want to WHINE about suicide dweebs. Please read my PATHETIC post.

[Arlo]

Mold ... wake up. You're in the matrix.

- Morpheus

[Murdr]

Originally posted by mold
They are always trying to survive, regardless.  There is actually no suicide dweebing, until he dies--all suicide dweebers would prefer to live, except the conveyor belt types I guess.  But I would say that if they dive bomb fuel while ack is up or while you are orbiting, then that is indeed a suicide run (regardless of whether they wanted to live or not).

I really dont think the inbound pony/jug/tiff believes that they are going to be caught.  I guess our view differs between them and those that auger/drop in one fell swoop

 They should have brought some CAP.

So it is ok then if 2 porkers can destroy fuel instead of one?

[zmeg]

One posible solution would be not allowing you to reup from a base less than 50 miles from where you died.

[mold]

Originally posted by Arlo
Mold ... wake up. You're in the matrix.

No.  It's not true.  I want out.  Let me outta here!  I WANT OUT!  GET AWAY FROM ME!!

Damn, does this mean I can fly through walls??  Hold on a sec, I'll be right back.  

Duuuuuh, I'm back.  Duuuh. Droool.  I thiiink I'll chuuute some shooots noow.  Drooool.

[mold]

Originally posted by Murdr
I really dont think the inbound pony/jug/tiff believes that they are going to be caught.  I guess our view differs between them and those that auger/drop in one fell swoop

Regardless of whether they want to survive or not, I feel these two types should be put in the same category (in a sense).

Originally posted by Murdr
So it is ok then if 2 porkers can destroy fuel instead of one?

LOL  No, the idea is if there is enough CAP, both will survive.  The variable time can be adjusted to distinguish between honest stratters and porkers.  Really, these gray situations are the extreme minority.  In general, you're either clearly a suicide dweeb or you're clearly not...and the time parameter can be easily used to distinguish between them.

[mold]

Originally posted by zmeg
One posible solution would be not allowing you to reup from a base less than 50 miles from where you died.

Yeah, but the thing is many folks don't do this for the conveyor belt effect.  As nopoop mentioned in another thread, many folks do this to be a part of the team.  "Everything's down guys, send in the goons".  Especially for a new player, this type of thing brings him into the community, which is great but with the wrong methods.

Also, I think many people will object to being denied upping from whichever base they choose, and I think I'd agree with them on that.

[Murdr]

I would object to flying 3 sectors to bomb a field, only to have it not count for anything because something happens to go wrong at the target.  Personally I feel wasting someones time by taking away the effects of their actions is no less offensive than not letting them up from a field.  Probably more.

[nopoop]

Had a thread that was 100 plus by HT awhile back on that very subject.

[Murdr]

Hate to bring the A word into this...but in AW the ack (which was not 37mm shells, but flak bursts) was adjusted quite a bit.  At times the setting were such that the first burst may kill you at 12,000 agl.  My view that defense is the better route is from experience, and I disagree that it would not have an effect.  It would be better if it was much harder to earn the effects that a pork run causes.

The basic premise of the problem is that 'suicide porkers' have an disproportional effect on other peoples style of game play.  I agree with that.  My objection to your idea is that instead of trying to lessen their effect on others game play, you are trying to change their style of play.  I see no difference other than just inconviencing the other group of players.  I will agree to disagree, and leave it at that

[mold]

Originally posted by Murdr
I would object to flying 3 sectors to bomb a field, only to have it not count for anything because something happens to go wrong at the target.  Personally I feel wasting someones time by taking away the effects of their actions is no less offensive than not letting them up from a field.  Probably more.

If you are flying 3 sectors (presumably a buff), how often would "something go wrong" within a minute of the drop?  This situation is just not gonna happen.  If there was actually hi-alt cap at the base (yeah right LOL), they're gonna get you before you drop.

If you're in a fighter flying 3 sectors to a target, and you manage to die within a minute of drop...well that is definitely a suicide run.  3 sectors...good god.  You should have *plenty* of alt to choose not to dive if you see enough cons that you think you will die within a minute.

[mold]

Originally posted by nopoop
Had a thread that was 100 plus by HT awhile back on that very subject.

Thx, I will look for that.

[mold]

Originally posted by Murdr
Hate to bring the A word into this...but in AW the ack (which was not 37mm shells, but flak bursts) was adjusted quite a bit.  At times the setting were such that the first burst may kill you at 12,000 agl.  My view that defense is the better route is from experience, and I disagree that it would not have an effect.  It would be better if it was much harder to earn the effects that a pork run causes.

Hmm, perhaps you are right about this.  But doesn't doing this alter the "strategic balance" for those who play strat honestly?  I mean some thought was presumably put into the current hardness levels in view of an honest strat game...changing that might unbalance the game for the honest stratters.

Originally posted by Murdr
My objection to your idea is that instead of trying to lessen their effect on others game play, you are trying to change their style of play.  I see no difference other than just inconviencing the other group of players.

But the currently game play is not inherently natural, it is an artificial product of the rules as they are.  Changing the gameplay incentives to something different is no more artificial than what we already have.

Originally posted by Murdr
I will agree to disagree, and leave it at that

'k, that's cool.

[Delirium]

I hate to get involved in this discussion, but I agree 110%. Currently, its too easy and too wide spread... last night alone, there wasn't a single base within 50 miles of the front that had fuel.

You may call that a success, you're probably right, I just log off.

[AKIron]

25% never stops me from either defending or attacking. A pony can go a long way on a quarter tank of gas. Of course my insensitive squaddies do snicker whenever I run outta gas.

[SlapShot]

Your in on a town with your P-38 ...

You let 2 1000 pounders go to take out the last remaining buildings.

T -1:00 minute

There is a goon hot on your heels and as soon as the buildings explode, he releases the drunks.

T -0:50

You have extented out and up to CAP any inbounds from wacking the goon. You spot one and drop down for the fight.

T -0:45

Meanwhile the drunks have hit the ground and are running. You are now involved in a cat fight with a Spit. As hard as you try, the Spit is coming around on ya.

T -0:20

There are only 4 more drunks on the ground making their way to the map room. The Spit sends home some 20mm and boom your dead. Nobody has witnessed your fight ... you are over 6K away from the town.

T -0:05

Magically ... at town over 6K away, the buildings that you knocked down re-materialize out of thin air just as the last 2 drunks are at the map room door.

Sorry ... no capture this time

You think you have heard a whine now ... you haven't heard anything until this scenario takes place.