Author Topic: Open Letter To HTC (Read 3707 times)

Flossy · « **Reply #30 on:** December 27, 2003, 06:02:02 AM »

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Originally posted by artik
Do you mean that AH2 v 2.0 will not have ToD?

LOL! Sorry, I am only quoting what I have read here on the BBS..... but it has been stated that when AH2 comes out it will be the Classic version only and that ToD will follow later. As far as I know, all the present planeset will be included, and at first they were saying there would be no new planes, but last time I quoted that the thread was deleted..... so maybe there will be. Anyway, all information can be found in these forums..... I honestly don't have access to any other information.

Westy · « **Reply #31 on:** December 27, 2003, 08:42:45 AM »

Cod this is pure, unadulterated deja-vu!

Back in 98-99 I remember many people expressing thier wish that AW would look as good as EAW did. And I recall the same old argument about GFX and it's supposed lack of overall importance.

Hogwash. If that was the case we'd all be playing on monochrome screens with wireframe planes AW ala 1989.

Sorry buds. While I agree wholeheartedly that features and gameplay are important so is a programs ability to stimulate the only two senses a PC is capable recreating; sound and sight.

For a lot of people, myself included, AH-1 has fallen down miserably in gameplay and GFX are still OK but old now. And it never had "it" when it cames to "sounds." Not till players in the community rose to the challenge anyway.

IMO AH-1 GFX was the cats meow for a couple of years. Then IL2 came along. And gameplay has been left to the creative ("septic" may be more appropo) juices as AH-1 has turned into a literal AW in the MA all over again. It's the BIGPAC land grab rife with field porking, suicide "buffer/jabo" tards.

Westy

Wilbus · « **Reply #32 on:** December 27, 2003, 08:56:26 AM »

Arlo, compared to Il2 the graphics are quite bad in AH, this is most noticed when it comes to effects such as sun, sky, smoke, fire, hit sprites. Muzzle flashes are way over-done though.

Don't just look at the plane detail, which are better too but look at all small details, cockpit shaking, engine mannagement, different boost options (water methanol, over boost etc), clouds, rain, snow, thunder, haze, fog, thermals etc etc etc, it's the small details that make a game feel more realistic, AH is nowhere close to the "feel" you get in IL2.

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And if the extra yet uneccessary eyecandy drags down systems that two years ago were considered fairly decent (in some cases "top of the line") without really adding more than some "ooohs and aaahs" the first dozen or so times they're seen (after which they are as taken for granted as the fuzzy portrayals of the pixels that preceeded them) then it's really a waste of HTCs valuable yet limited resources at the possible cost of a chunk of the customer base that was more than satisfied with the current product.

Such is life in the computer market, if you wanna stay with it you'll have to upgrade sooner or later, 2 years in the computer market is like light years when it comes to most other things, it advances SO quick, you can't expect a company to stay old and have the same system requirements for their game as they did in 1999 or 2001 (which were about the same system req for AH).
Eyecandy is a BIG part of the realism in a game, even more so when it comes to flight games or sims.

Urchin · « **Reply #33 on:** December 27, 2003, 10:57:54 AM »

In my opinion it is kind of gameplay vs graphics. The "worse" the gameplay, the better the graphics have to be to make up for it. Since for many people the gameplay is no longer so immersive, they are beginning to point out that the graphics aren't immersive either.

Arlo · « **Reply #34 on:** December 27, 2003, 12:53:02 PM »

Exactly, Urch. Graphics used to be a means to an end .... meaning the game graphics HAD to be advanced to be able to add additional game features (flying through or above clouds, oil smoke versus vaporized fuel, tracers, hit sprites, missing pieces). The horse pulling the cart, if you will.

I think that any additional graphics beyond what is actually neccesary to enhance the game mechanics is just gravy and comes at a premium. If it can be added without undue burden to one year old systems then sure, why not? If adding morning dew to blades of grass in the field you're taking off from serves no real purpose and will be generally ignored once the "oooh and ahhh" stage is over yet it forces everyone in the community to have to double or triple their system specs to continue to play the game ... then that is not only putting the cart well ahead ... it's possibly shooting the horse.

I'll concede that much of what helped boost AH over it's competition from the start was graphical in nature. But it's already reached the level of covering (and covering well) most of the bases that needed covering as far as graphics enhancing the game is concerned (I'll include the latest AHII revamp based on the feedback and information presented on the boards).

The AHII revamp has some gameplay enhancement as well as some graphic enhancement. And it appears that they are related. And although the system specs have definately risen, it may not be too much of a reach for most in the community to keep up (hopefully all of the regulars in the game and then some). It is a major endevour that required significant changes to the game engine as well as the graphics. Long ago the differences and improvements in graphics dropped from mile-long strides to yards or even feet. From this point on differences that graphics will make to the game will be measured in millimeters. That makes it a matter of investment return. I certainly hope HTC sees some from AHII.

AH will never end up a graphic clone of IL2 and I'm certainly not convinced that that's a bad thing. Like you said .... they fill two different niches in the flight sim community.

Arlo · « **Reply #35 on:** December 27, 2003, 01:49:12 PM »

mold · « **Reply #36 on:** December 27, 2003, 03:30:36 PM »

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Originally posted by Arlo
Exactly, Urch. Graphics used to be a means to an end .... meaning the game graphics HAD to be advanced to be able to add additional game features (flying through or above clouds, oil smoke versus vaporized fuel, tracers, hit sprites, missing pieces). The horse pulling the cart, if you will.

We don't exactly need the matrix, but until we can play at a resolution as good as human eyesight, including peripheral vision, and until we can overcome the limitation of hat-based viewing systems, the horse will continue to pull the cart. We're a looong way from the frivolous stage, imo. What would solve these problems is binocular hemispheric goggles with exrtemely high resolution.

Arlo · « **Reply #37 on:** December 27, 2003, 03:52:34 PM »

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Originally posted by mold
We don't exactly need the matrix, but until we can play at a resolution as good as human eyesight, including peripheral vision, and until we can overcome the limitation of hat-based viewing systems, the horse will continue to pull the cart. We're a looong way from the frivolous stage, imo. What would solve these problems is binocular hemispheric goggles with exrtemely high resolution.

Until you get it and decide that the goggles steam up and inhibit the graphic immersion and decide that the matrix style cranial jack is really the bestest best total game immersion upgrade and that any game that doesn't have it is so far behind the times that it's not worth your time anymore. Especially since those "steamy" goggles also made you blind.

Yeah ... it's about to the friv stage.

udet · « **Reply #38 on:** December 27, 2003, 03:53:08 PM »

with the first couple of AH2 Betas I got 0 FPS on my system, which can run IL2 Sturmovik at max detail fine. Granted, IL2 is an older game, but looks way better than AH2. I gave up checking the AH2 betas after that.

Arlo · « **Reply #39 on:** December 27, 2003, 03:57:14 PM »

You have finally found Nirvana. Until later when the Nirvana looks greener on the other side of the fence.

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #40 on:** December 27, 2003, 04:22:53 PM »

Arlo, I am really happy for you to still be able to enjoy Ah and honestly think that it's still great. As far as I'm concerned, AH and even AH2 Beta is no longer "da ****znit", and sadly only 1 56FG member is still flying AH. When is the last time we had a cool F4U/P47 squad encouter?

I still pay my account to support HTC for a couple of more month. Maybe it doesn't make sense to you, but I had a great time flying AH, I'm hoping it will help them offer a product that satisfies me again... and no, you cannot in your right mind say that AH and FB graphics are about the same. AH is not a box game, so I guess it xcannot have the graphics of FB (who wants to download a 1 gig game), but I wouldn't mind paying $40 for a boxed AH3 addon that give me killer graphics.

The visual is mandatory for my "immersion factor". If there's no immersion, I don't want to play it.

Arlo · « **Reply #41 on:** December 27, 2003, 06:46:00 PM »

I'm tickled pink that you think IL2 will still satisfy you next year. If HTC doesn't freak out and decide that graphics means more than the game itself ... then I'll be HTC's satisfied customer next year and the year after that and so on. HiTech doesn't hafta "keep up with the Jones'." All it has to do is to continue to offer a decent product at a decent price and it'll do fine. For every player that "moves on" to something "better." There'll be two that discover Aces High for the first time.

Flossy · « **Reply #42 on:** December 27, 2003, 08:56:45 PM »

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Originally posted by udet
with the first couple of AH2 Betas I got 0 FPS on my system, which can run IL2 Sturmovik at max detail fine. Granted, IL2 is an older game, but looks way better than AH2. I gave up checking the AH2 betas after that.

Your loss then. I also had very low framerates initially, but now have similar framerates to AH1 following the various updates.

udet · « **Reply #43 on:** December 27, 2003, 11:29:08 PM »

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Originally posted by Flossy
Your loss then. I also had very low framerates initially, but now have similar framerates to AH1 following the various updates.

ok, you tricked me into downloading the next beta hon

NoBaddy · « **Reply #44 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:36:48 AM »

I was told the that main reasons for creating a new graphics engine for AH2 was to improve the damage modeling and terrain modeling. The "eyecandy" is a side benefit.