Author Topic: How to get a high rank  (Read 28522 times)

Offline Steve

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« Reply #165 on: January 07, 2004, 02:03:50 PM »
easy Horschak.
Member: Hot Soup Mafia - Cream of Myshroom
Army of Muppets  Yes, my ingame name is Steve

Offline T1loady

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« Reply #166 on: January 07, 2004, 02:06:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
easy Horschak.

Steve you talking to me?

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #167 on: January 07, 2004, 02:17:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by T1loady
Steve you talking to me?


Youngster !!!
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline T1loady

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« Reply #168 on: January 07, 2004, 02:19:23 PM »
I guess you think im a kid.   Ill shut up...until i have something grown up to say..... :mad:

SkipNutz
« Last Edit: January 07, 2004, 02:59:16 PM by T1loady »

Offline kj714

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« Reply #169 on: January 07, 2004, 03:13:30 PM »
"bugger of game - golf that is - few minutes of excitment , surrounded by hours of frustration"

I feel your pain here, nothing worse than when everyone's hitting on the beer cart hottie, and she can't get back to you.

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #170 on: January 07, 2004, 03:51:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by T1loady
I guess you think im a kid.   Ill shut up...until i have something grown up to say..... :mad:

SkipNutz


SkipNutz ... just kiddin' with ya.

Shane's line was taken from a character in the ever popular show ... "Welcome back Kotter" who was a school teacher that returned to his old inner city school and taught a group of "tuffer" and "not so smart" inner city kids.

Steve repsonse was showing that he knew who the character was that ALWAYS tried to answer question by jumping out of his seat screaming ... "oooo oooo oooo"

If you didn't recognize the inferences to all of the above, I would consider you a "youngster" and had not ever seen the show. It was one of the most popular shows in its day.

The star character in the "group" was John Travolta ... Vinnie if I remember correctly.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2004, 03:56:18 PM by SlapShot »
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline Murdr

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« Reply #171 on: January 07, 2004, 05:54:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Bull puppy.

The system would still accuratly provide a measure of golf skill. But your players are no longer playing golf they are now playing a different game. And since your players are not interested in their golf score, they wouldn't even keep track.

So are you interested in playing golf, or do you just want to head to the driving range. Both are perfectly acceptible, but don't try tell the golfers they should forget about it and just go to the driving range instead, because in your view distance is the only TRUE method for messuring a golfers talents.

HiTech

Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying

I'm not sure where you're coming up with this analogy.  I'm all for folks flying any way they want including flying for score.  I cautioned against using rank alone to assess skill since it fails to account for certain behaviors and rewards others disproportionately.  In other words, fighter rank presents a great measure of how well people engage in activities designed to maximize fighter rank.  I personally would consider someone more "skilled" if he or she manages a high fighter rank by flying in a well-rounded manner without manipulating fighter and attack sortie settings to increase the odds of high tally missions with low risk.  Or if he or she manages such a rank without vulching.  We can't really know that without context.

-- Todd/Leviathn


LMAO.  "I'm not sure where comming up with this, but by my third sentence, I will play back into your analogy."

Try this.  HiTech your golf tournement is screwed up.  Tiger shows up every month and only grabs a 3w and leaves his bag at the clubhouse.  Duval does bring his bag on the course, but he only ever uses his 5I and 7I.  (They dont use putters because they dont enjoy that part of golf.)  Micklson shows up with only a PW and a putter. (obvious dweeb, he likes to putt)
 
Meanwhile there is this no name over here that brought a gps device that has the entire course mapped down to the 1/2 inch, and is using it to his advantage on the course.  And some of these guys are playing with hi tech composite clubs, special core balls, and laser range finders.
 
The reason your tournement is porked is because Tiger is the best golfer, but it does not show up on the leaderboard.  HiTech, you should change the rules of golf because it does not take into account Tigers, Micklsons, or Duvals behaivor.

Another reason it is porked is some of these guys are doing everything they can within the rules to place as high as they can on the leaderboard.  I personally would consider it skill if these guys would show up on your course sight unseen, with a bag full of reclaimed balls, and a set of clubs where the heads of the woods were actually made of wood.

Until you find a way to handicap the players in your tournement so that the leaderboard shows who is really skilled, instead of just the players that are trying to win the tournement, I am going to tell all the other players that it doesnt matter where they finished in the tournement.  

After all I know which aspect of the game requires true skill, and I know who has mastered that skill, and they should be winning the tournements in my opinion.

Offline bj229r

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« Reply #172 on: January 07, 2004, 06:25:49 PM »
I cant ever get past the fediddlein windmill
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #173 on: January 07, 2004, 06:33:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
LMAO.  "I'm not sure where comming up with this, but by my third sentence, I will play back into your analogy."

Try this.  HiTech your golf tournement is screwed up.  Tiger shows up every month and only grabs a 3w and leaves his bag at the clubhouse.  Duval does bring his bag on the course, but he only ever uses his 5I and 7I.  (They dont use putters because they dont enjoy that part of golf.)  Micklson shows up with only a PW and a putter. (obvious dweeb, he likes to putt)
 
Meanwhile there is this no name over here that brought a gps device that has the entire course mapped down to the 1/2 inch, and is using it to his advantage on the course.  And some of these guys are playing with hi tech composite clubs, special core balls, and laser range finders.
 
The reason your tournement is porked is because Tiger is the best golfer, but it does not show up on the leaderboard.  HiTech, you should change the rules of golf because it does not take into account Tigers, Micklsons, or Duvals behaivor.

Another reason it is porked is some of these guys are doing everything they can within the rules to place as high as they can on the leaderboard.  I personally would consider it skill if these guys would show up on your course sight unseen, with a bag full of reclaimed balls, and a set of clubs where the heads of the woods were actually made of wood.

Until you find a way to handicap the players in your tournement so that the leaderboard shows who is really skilled, instead of just the players that are trying to win the tournement, I am going to tell all the other players that it doesnt matter where they finished in the tournement.  

After all I know which aspect of the game requires true skill, and I know who has mastered that skill, and they should be winning the tournements in my opinion.


So the ranking computer should recognize that you are entering a fight low on E, ammo or friendlies?  Or it should recognize that you just did a great job on forcing an overshoot on a better turning plane?  I'd like to see the code for these situations.  

eskimo

Offline Murdr

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« Reply #174 on: January 07, 2004, 06:49:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
So the ranking computer should recognize that you are entering a fight low on E, ammo or friendlies?  Or it should recognize that you just did a great job on forcing an overshoot on a better turning plane?  I'd like to see the code for these situations.  

eskimo


Oh, and I forgot...Another reason your tournement is porked is because I know some guys that are really excelent at playing out of the bunkers.  They enjoy it, and try to do it every chance they get, but they're not on top of the leaderboard either.  Handicap their spot on the leaderboard too.



While your at it, some of the most skilled golfers I know attend your tournement, and by the ninth hole they are out of beer.  They never make it to the 10th because they are drinking at the clubhouse.  That is how they get the most enjoyment out of your tournement.  Dont forget to handicap those golfers to the top of the leaderboard too.

Offline DrDea

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« Reply #175 on: January 07, 2004, 07:27:27 PM »
Ahhhh Vinnie Barbarino.Thats been ages
The Flying Circus.Were just like you.Only prettier.

FSO 334 Flying Eagles. Fencers Heros.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #176 on: January 07, 2004, 07:53:18 PM »
Dude, I have NEVER heard of that show... EVER.  Hell, I thought shane was talking about South Park.. which I don't watch but I have least heard of.  When was this other show on TV?  I figured I was at least as old as Shane....  

Anyway.. Murdr..  Good, good job on the analogy thingie.  I understand what you are saying perfectly, and you said it better than I ever could have.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #177 on: January 07, 2004, 07:56:13 PM »
Thanks for essentially make my point for me, Murdr.  Let me elaborate.

First, at no point did I state that we should replace the current scoring/ranking system with some new system that measures only what I want it to measure.  This is where you and HiTech both wrongly believe that I wish to impose some new standard upon the current scoring system in order to boost myself or people who fly in a manner I prefer.  I did argue that context matters since rank alone doesn't tell us much about how someone flies; we know the ends but not the means.

Second, I enjoy the subtle shift this discussion has now taken from measuring skill to measuring success.  These two things differ (not unexpectedly since the current ranking system measures success with total accuracy and skill with only some accuracy).  The example you provided perfectly fits this distinction.  Would you reasonably argue that Tiger Woods possesses less absolute skill than the no-name player in your example?  All other things being equal, Tiger Woods would beat that player any day of the week in all situations.  And yet the no-name player succeeds in the tournament because Woods, despite his skill, does not engage in the sorts of activities conducive to winning.

My point in this thread has been that rank does not necessarily provide an accurate measure for skill, though I recognize that in a game sense it provides an accurate measure of how successfully people engage in activities that, on the whole, increase fighter rank.  Think of it this way... if Tiger Woods brings all of his clubs and a GPS device, he's going to defeat a lesser-skilled player who does the same.  He will succeed.  If the no-name player brings all of the clubs and the GPS device but Woods does not, then the no-name player succeeds.  If Woods and the no-name player both bring all of their clubs and a GPS device with them, Woods wins.  If Woods plays against someone of exactly the same skill level and uses all of his clubs and a GPS device while the other player does not, he will succeed in winning the tournament.

So now we have multiple outcomes but the relative skill levels haven't changed.  This was exactly the point I was making to HiTech earlier, that golf scores do not accurately measure skill if skilled players do not play in ways conducive to "winning."  Success?  Yes.  Skill?  No.

Let's face it, many players who look at rank don't think, "Now that guy's a really successful player."  They think, "Wow, that guy must be really, really good."  And of course, the player may in fact be quite skilled in every aspect of Aces High.  Or he might be someone who brought all the clubs and a GPS device while others were downing a beer a hole and putting with drivers for the heck of it.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #178 on: January 07, 2004, 08:03:18 PM »
Quote
Think of it this way... if Tiger Woods brings all of his clubs and a GPS device, he's going to defeat a lesser-skilled player who does the same. He will succeed. If the no-name player brings all of the clubs and the GPS device but Woods does not, then the no-name player succeeds. If Woods and the no-name player both bring all of their clubs and a GPS device with them, Woods wins.


But Lev... you have been saying this whole time to me that it is the player.... not the club and GPS equipment?  Like that, dontcha!  Yea, thought you would  :D

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #179 on: January 07, 2004, 08:05:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
But Lev... you have been saying this whole time to me that it is the player.... not the club and GPS equipment?  Like that, dontcha!  Yea, thought you would  :D


Go get lost in another analogy, plane boy.  :)

-- Todd/Leviathn