Three things that could really improve the AH experience

[NUKE]

who really gives a watermelon about WBs? AW is the only game that matters after AH.

[nopoop]

I'll tell ya Beet, I don't buy into the laser gunnery thing.

I can't hit squat here after two years. Not a complaint, my cross to bear.

I personally don't see it on the recieving end either, though the majority of times the guy that shoots me could throw a rock at me too.

If I saw it, it would be a different story from my end. I don't see it.

Honest injun.

[scJazz]

As usual Kweassa proposes intelligent alternatives for some added realism without heavy handedness.

One thing that must be considered is just how short many flights in AH can be. FesterMA is a good example.

Launch at a base, fly 15 miles, engage enemy fly around for 5 min if your good, kill stuff, go land your kills. At around 250mph average speed this whole process lasts around 13 minutes. If you fly all the way to an enemy base to fight then it takes around 20 minutes.

Just how much tweaking with the engine should we have to do? Will we even have time for it?

[DES]

I wouldn't mind seeing all the things asked for in this thread added to the game, as long as I can turn them all off like I do by using auto trim and auto takeoff. I play to fight and am not interested in a lot of detail management but I'd like it to be there for thoose that enjoy it.  I also don't want to see there be any advantage to doing things manually, if you want to do it that's fine but I don't.

des

[Replicant]

Originally posted by DES
I wouldn't mind seeing all the things asked for in this thread added to the game, as long as I can turn them all off like I do by using auto trim and auto takeoff. I play to fight and am not interested in a lot of detail management but I'd like it to be there for thoose that enjoy it.  I also don't want to see there be any advantage to doing things manually, if you want to do it that's fine but I don't.

des

Hence why it would be more suited to AH2: TOD rather than AH2: Classic.  We've already been told that aircraft become more reliable as you get a higher rank in TOD since you get better mechanics.

[Sadist]

I enjoy being able to up and not think about it, but then thats a no brainer way of doing it.

the best thing about puter games is the ability to improve and enhace etc...
personally i think if most just want the arcade style bang bang shoot em up then maybe go for the playstation xbox type of games,

i look for as realistic as possible because i can have an idea of what it was like.

i have boasted and promoted ah as the most realistic without being real and yet i know the game can do much better.

i agree totally with banana. but then htc has their own agenda

my guess is enjoy it while it lasts considering the few ww2 type sims of this caliber their are

Sadist

[Flossy]

Originally posted by banana
No disrespect intended to any of the AW guys, because every AW guy(and gal-Hi Flossy!) I ever met in person have been friendly and fun to be with. But I think it's a fact that the Warbirds crowd was into more realism than was the AW crowd

Hi banana, I think you may be right about those of us from AW.  I know one thing, if it gets too complicated, I will probably struggle, not having had any kind of flying experience in RL and being a secretary in my RL job.  I think that's why I never went to WB, because it didn't look (watched Zeb a few times when he tried it) to be as much fun as AW and everyone seemed to take things so seriously.  

I don't use auto-takeoff as a matter of principle.... just doesn't feel right to have a plane careering down the runway without any input from me - I like to 'feel' the takeoff myself, even if more control than I am used to is needed to keep it straight.   I do, however, use Combat Trim most of the time, only manually over-riding it in certain situations.  

After playing AH for just over 3 years now, I am getting used to having to read dials (we had an optional digital readout in AW, which I used) to find my altitude/airspeed/manifold pressure, etc and am even getting to grips with the more complex bombsight (though nothing like as good at it as I used to be with the old one!).  However, I don't relish the idea of having even more dials to keep an eye on.  Like my signature says - I like flying for fun and if it gets too complicated, it could stop being as much fun for me.  I would probably end up 'grounded' again like I was for a while following the introduction of the new bombsite, only this time it would be more permanent, I think.

Anyway, I suppose I am in a minority here, so I'll just have to see how things go.  

[Kweassa]

So I think we have it.

 It seems that the people who don't want any extra complexity besides the pure air combat element, are still open-minded enough to graciously accept changes as long as it is allowable as an option.

 Woohoo! Compromise is reached on banana's original suggestions. Case solved!



1. Make take-offs and landings harder, but also allow auto takeoffs as an option. However, landings will still require more work, since there ain't no "auto landings".

2. Implement more various engine conditions in terms of damage + a more complex engine management method. However, it will remain as an option, for those who want it.

 This should be implemented without major performance disadvantages on either side of choice, unlike in the case of stall limiters, so it strictly remains as a preference issue.

3. Icon and radar issues - will remain as it is in AH.


 ..

 I don't think anyone's gonna be angry with this.

[Toad]

No one's going to be against it if there's no performance disadvantage one way or the other and if it is a voluntary, selectable user's choice.

While one guy wants to taxi around the airfield and check his magnetos before takeoff, another guy can hit autotakeoff and go get a fresh beer.

This is as it should be.

It's when stuff like this is forced on players that the neck hairs start to rise. Because this is correctly seen as non-performance related, non-essential stuff.

[Flossy]

Originally posted by Toad
While one guy wants to taxi around the airfield and check his magnetos before takeoff, another guy can hit autotakeoff and go get a fresh beer.

I would prefer something in between.... I don't want to be bothered with all that checking, but at the same time I don't want the 'gameyness' of using auto-takeoff!  As it is right now is about right for me.  

[dracon]

Originally posted by Toad
The "ego stroked" comment was in direct response to this:

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Originally posted by dracon

Auto-Takeoff is for...Toads UGH! Go play Quake.


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Oh come ON now Toad!!  Quit being a-a-a Toad!  You named yourself, Live with it!  You know very well Quake is a "Game Style..No Strat, all Combat!  That is what "furballers" do Right???  You are QuakeBirders.  Any insult is self-inflicted as my use of the term refers to the Genre.

NoBaddy,
Originally posted by dracon
WRONG! This is a Flight Sim that we do combat in.

To quote you "WRONG!". The basis of this game is an AIR COMBAT SIM and NOT a flight sim. Don't believe me? Ask the creator

You missed the point!  I'll explain......To some It is a COMBAT SIM that you fly in.  To others, such as myself, it is a FLIGHT SIM that you do combat in.  It's to each ones personal taste.  One should not tell the other what is right or wrong.  One should not tell the other what to WISH FOR.

Most of the people involved SHOULD have understood that many of the things banana was talking about could be turned on or off with a tic mark.  Hope that helps!

The 339th is a JABO Squad.  We always take ORD.  It doesn't matter if we come in at 40,000 or NOE, the bases start Flashing. Oft times we have a welcoming committee there an waiting.  We're swarmed on as we drop, then pounced on when low and in "recovery mode".  Ahhh well, it keeps or scores high and what we do is OUR choice.  What more could we ask for.  I don't ask to remove "Dar" from the cockpits.  After all...I'm realistic and a Rook!  Cooperation is not something you can plan on  I do ask that it be a bit more realistically LIMITED and that the "Flashing Fields" GO AWAY!!

I'm sure we'll get what HTC decides as HTC's goal is to keep the arena and their pockets full.

WarBirds is harder than AH????  Where did that misnomer come from??  There is NO strat or engine management in WBs.  You could take a P-51 and literally dive it from 30K with a "click" flaps and not have the flaps raise or lose a wing.  Try that in AH and you're a lawn dart.  There are no more guages in WBs than in AH.  Remember..both Sims had the Same Creator.

Well all, I'm out!

[lazs2]

somebody want to tell me which WWII plane couldn't run at full military power for 10 whole minutes?

most people skip the running from the tower thing... I would skip the preflight inspection and running up the engine and warmup and mag checks and all that.

I think the people who want all that want easy vultches or... more important.. they want the sorties to last longer..  take off 5 fields back say and fly in formations and all... maybe use only historical plane sets... the closer they get to realistic 4 hour flights without a fight the better.   Bounce people who have fallen asleep or who are trying to get that "perfect" cowl setting..   How many really want to wait hours to get into a decent fight with nothing to do but fiddle with settings?

no thanks.

as for 800 yard shots... nope... doesn't happen here very often..  600 maybe often... most wait till around 300-400.  Bet real pilots with a couple of thousand hours of SHOOTING time could hit at 600 most of the time and 800 occasionaly.   What beetle wants is for the sim to make up for experiance.   he wants us to all be newbies who can't hit past 100 yards and then.. not very often... perfect for the B & Z style... but not realistic.   If the bullet drop and dispersion are modeled then whatever you can do... you can do.  

The quake label doesn't bother me.. played it once... seemed fine... the "strat" seemed about as meaningful as AH "strat"... the strat in AH is just an excuse to have a fight in my opinion... some take it way too seriously for it's triviality but they have various reasons to do so... none good in my opinion.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[Kweassa]

Bet real pilots with a couple of thousand hours of SHOOTING time could hit at 600 most of the time and 800 occasionaly.

 Maybe, but I sincerely doubt it, though.

 The reason may also be attributed to the difference to some factors present in real life that are not portrayed in the game. I don't know about you, but to me, this seems to make a lot more sense then a theory which relies everything on subjectivity.

 In any rate, only when most of those factors are adequately portrayed inside a game, will we ever get to see if the "gamers are more experienced in gunnery" theory is really true... which for some reason, people don't want to see it happening.

 I'd say it's a mix of both, with the larger weight of reason going to the latter(environment), than the former(human factor).

[beet1e]

Originally posted by dracon
WarBirds is harder than AH???? Where did that misnomer come from?? There is NO strat or engine management in WBs. You could take a P-51 and literally dive it from 30K with a "click" flaps and not have the flaps raise or lose a wing.  

How long since you flew WB? Airframe stress has been there since just after I joined WB, c1998. There was a time when they had airspeed indicators with coloured arcs (green, yellow, red) but you could dive a 190 to 700mph without breaking it. Then, in 2.01, they introduced airframe stress but then removed the coloured arcs from the ASI! It was prettythang backwards. First they had meaningless coloured arcs, then when the coloured arcs would have become useful, they took them away!

[scJazz]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Maybe, but I sincerely doubt it, though.

 The reason may also be attributed to the difference to some factors present in real life that are not portrayed in the game. I don't know about you, but to me, this seems to make a lot more sense then a theory which relies everything on subjectivity.

 In any rate, only when most of those factors are adequately portrayed inside a game, will we ever get to see if the "gamers are more experienced in gunnery" theory is really true... which for some reason, people don't want to see it happening.

 I'd say it's a mix of both, with the larger weight of reason going to the latter(environment), than the former(human factor).

Reasons why gunnery in AH or sims is better...

1) Single biggest reason... we can ZOOM in! Think about it at 1500' (D500) a 109 is a pretty damn small target. Being able to ZOOM and see what the plane is doing in terms of roll, climb, and yaw makes setting up the shot darn easy. Try flying a sortie in which you never touch ZOOM and see how good you do.

2) Icons... pretty red signs that tell you the range to target. How cool is this! Setting up the 3000' (D1000) shot on a fairly level target is painless with .50s. At the ZOOM I use I aim about 3/16ths of inch above plane and pull trigger. WHACK! Again if you can get yourself into a 1 V 1 fight turn off Icons and see how good you do.

3) Round dispersion modelling... done pretty poorly. Aircraft vibrate like mad! Even a 1/2" vibration will cause rounds to be off by several feet at 6000'. Worse wing warping isn't even modelled at all. Ever look at the wing of an aircraft in flight? It isn't even remotely perfectly straight. It flexes and warps in the turbulence and G input. I suspect this would toss the rounds even further off target. Imagine what it would do the the F4Us aiming, remember the F4Us prop is bloody huge and the plane isn't even slightly small.


Can anyone think of additional reasons?