Author Topic: 1 week left  (Read 1098 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2001, 10:08:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo:
I must be thick.
Niki this tour. 11708 kills 11039 deaths
-12500 kills or so last tour
Spit IX this tour. 11445 kills 10883 deaths
-11500 kills or so last tour
F4U1c last tour 27717 kills 20022 deaths

How do those numbers justify the comments made?
Only the experts at the Ministry of Hog Hypocrisy can do the math that makes those numbers comparable..
Both these planes where popular befor the perking of the chog...They have barly increased in numbers at all.
The pilot hours have been spread over several other plane types as well..
This is somehow going to be presented as a failure of the move to perk the chog? LOLOLOLOLOLOL
pathetic.
but go for it guys...
the world waits.


Remember, it was based on % of kills not numbers of...

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2001, 11:28:00 AM »
Just to stop the distortions, here are the blunt numbers:

All planes have 122703 kills and have been killed 122703 times. 100%

The N1K2 has 11730 kills and has been killed 11055 times. 9.6%

The Spitfire Mk IX has 11467 kills and has been killed 10903 times. 9.3%

The P-51D has 6581 kills and has been killed 6547 times. 5.4%

The F4U-1C has 6011 kills and has been killed 2866 times. 4.9%

The La-7 has 5837 kills and has been killed 5098 times. 4.8%

The Typhoon IB has 5491 kills and has been killed 4499 times. 4.5%

The Bf 109G-10 has 4794 kills and has been killed 4280 times. 3.9%

The F4U-1D has 4245 kills and has been killed 5256 times. 3.5%

The Fw 190D-9 has 3695 kills and has been killed 2573 times. 3.0%

The SpitV has 3109 kills and has been killed 3566 times. 2.5%

Just for fun:

The Ostwind has 11839 kills and has been killed 7186 times. 9.6%

The Panzer IV H has 7284 kills and has been killed 5820 times. 5.9%

No aircraft has 20% of the kills, hell, no aircraft even has 10% of the kills.  No aircraft has more than twice the number of kills of the aircraft below it, the Spitfire IX and N1K2 have had nearly, but not quite, double the numbers of the aircraft below them for the previous two tours as well.  The F4U-1C has not disappeared from the MA, it is the 4th most productive fighter, though its loss numbers indicate that it is rarer than its kill numbers would suggest.

It seems that perking the F4U-1C did not result in the N1K2 or Spitfire MkIX taking its place.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2001, 11:32:00 AM »
Niki and Spit IX??  guys, that's not what has the most kills so far in the tour...

The Ostwind has 11839 kills and has been killed 7187 times.  

that's a couple hundred more than the Niki.  So if you're talking about perking Niki and Spit IX, you better be talking about perking the Osti too!  Unless you who are using the term hypocrite want to be one yourself.  
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline Zippatuh

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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2001, 11:40:00 AM »
The only thing I would like is an explanation of the perking criteria for existing aircraft.  Yes there was a post form someone at HTC about the use of the Chog but as far as I can remember it just stated that “they were taking a look at it”.  Still there has been no defined explanation other than the ones presented by the pro-perkers.

Numbers, all right let’s talk numbers.  Theoretically it is impossible to compare numbers accurately unless certain conditions apply.  The same conditions such as map, number of players, and time of year would need to be compared for an accurate reference.  In the programmatic world I would think the version of FM also would need to be included.  Does this condition apply? No.  There is not enough history to make an accurate assumption.

So, what now?  The numbers on the Chog have dropped to an “acceptable” level and maybe even lower.  Will it now be un-perked?  No idea, there is not an established criteria for perking existing aircraft.

Do I want the Chog un-perked? Yes.  Why?  It is the single best aircraft, IMO, for ATG and a hog in the air is usually an easy target unless an experienced pilot is flying it.  Again, IMO, it is a very difficult aircraft to be proficient at.  What was the saying, “Ensign Eliminator”, hmmmmm.

Until there is a published criteria it will always look like the Chog was perked due to a lot of bruised egos.  I only ask for a standard not subjectivity on the whims of pilots downed by an “uber” arircraft.

Are my arguments weak?  Well, I guess that’s subjective also.  Especially since I can’t base my arguments on a published standard can I?

Zippatuh

Offline sling322

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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2001, 11:44:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Torgo:

Both have poor Kill/Death ratios... <snip>

So, Torgo, what exactly was the Kill/death ratio of the Chog before it was perked?


Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2001, 11:45:00 AM »
In addition to Zips "Metrics and baseline Gathering 101 lesson"...we also had that historically high number of Chogs when the NDIsles terrain was relatively new.

Now, lets set up an arena where the Philippines map is used, I'd bet we'd get 20% of N1K's up  

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2001, 11:52:00 AM »
 
Quote
Looks like the LA7 is the most common plane out there to me. They're everywhere all the time. (Image removed from quote.)

I'd have to agree with this one hblair.  I've seen more La-7s than N1Ks and Spit-9s combined.  Sometimes I see these total use numbers and wonder where the arena those numbers are grabbed from is located.

AKDejaVu

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2001, 11:56:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
I'd have to agree with this one hblair.  I've seen more La-7s than N1Ks and Spit-9s combined.  Sometimes I see these total use numbers and wonder where the arena those numbers are grabbed from is located.

AKDejaVu


Guess it depends on who you fly for and when you fly.  I see more Spits than anything, mostly IX's with some V's mixed in.  Few seafires this map.  I see La-7 about the same as I'll see a 190.  D Ponies I see a little more than the La-7, and of course Nikis a little under Spit (because there are 3 spit variants.)
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2001, 11:58:00 AM »
BTW... N1Ks and Spit9's are combining for 28% of the fighter kills (14% a piece).  During the height of the F4u-1C whining... it was around 18-19%.

People were complaining that no 4 aircraft should have half the kills in the arena.. but still... 4 aircraft have half of the kills in the arena.  It just highlights how stats can be used when it suits you and ignored when it does not.

Still waiting to see how the end of the month stats look.  The numbers are way down, and I do believe it is due to a combination of boredom and the perking of a popular plane.

AKDejaVu

Offline CptTrips

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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2001, 12:08:00 PM »


The Ostwind currently accounts for 58% of all ground vehicle kills.

Its easily maintains a K/D ratio of 1.6

The CHog never even came close to those stats.

Its obvious what must be perked next, no later than 1.7 if the perk system is to claim any kind of rationality and consistency.  

Regards,
Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2001, 12:43:00 PM »
And while you are at it perk the Panzer IV cause it is the highest scorring medium tank in the game.

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2001, 12:47:00 PM »
AKDejaVu,

I subtracted all Vehicle, Bomber and Boat/Ship kills from the total number of kills in Tour 15 to arrive at the number of Fighter kills as 128,440.

In Tour 15:

Fighters had 128440 kills.

The F4U-1C has 27717 kills and has been killed 20022 times.

The F4U-1C had 21.6% of the fighter kills in Tour 15.

AKWabbit,

Nice angle shift, kinda meaningless, but nice.  

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

SeaWulfe

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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2001, 01:03:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak:

Nice angle shift, kinda meaningless, but nice.  


Meaningless as in it doesn't suit your mood? Or meaningless in it doesn't matter to you because you aren't dying to it? Or meaningless to you because you only dogfight and don't ground pound?

Before when you guys wanted the F4U-1C perked, you constantly said "But there's an equivelant in the hangar not being used" (by the way, has the same usage as it did last tour for the F4U-1D)....

Well we *DO* have an M16, quad .50s capable of firing and hitting further than aircraft guns.

So we can perk the Ostwind right?
As long as something gets perked...
-SW


Offline CptTrips

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« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2001, 01:15:00 PM »

The CHOG was perked because people complained that when ever you saw aircraft, too high a percentage of them turned out to be CHOG's.

Ask yourself when you see ground vehicles, what percentage of them turn out to be Ostwinds?

I don't see a lot of variety myself.  I HAVE flown about airfields and seen the ground covered in Ostwind and more pouring out of the VH like those flesh eating scarabs in "The Mummy".  I'm tired of only seeing one kind of ground vehicle.  There never has, nor will ever be a more blatent case for perking.

Regards,
Wab

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Gargoyle

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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2001, 01:49:00 PM »
Just a statistical nitpick...

The low alt furball planes (N1K, Spit) will certainly get more kills than the long cruise high alt planes (P51, 109, 190) just because of the manner in which they are flown and time invested to get the kills...