Author Topic: I've been called a lot of things... (Read 1593 times)

kappa · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2004, 11:22:07 AM »

what about velcro?? I saw the movie men in black.. they said velcro came from outer space!!

Trell · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2004, 11:24:24 AM »

Miko

But would not slavery not fit into your "free Market WonderLand" We know Child labor is there

Nakhui · « **Reply #17 on:** January 07, 2004, 12:17:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by kappa
what about velcro?? I saw the movie men in black.. they said velcro came from outer space!!

You're not suppose to remember that...

Please look into the light...

BLEEEEEEEP!!

miko2d · « **Reply #18 on:** January 07, 2004, 01:17:20 PM »

Trell: But would not slavery not fit into your "free Market WonderLand" We know Child labor is there

Not preventing parents from voluntarily sending their children to work rather then watch them starve is kind of different from forcing a person to part with his freedom or property.

What, you insist that the children starved? Surely, the child is not sent to the mine if the parents could sent him to a private boarding school instead.

miko

Martlet · « **Reply #19 on:** January 07, 2004, 01:22:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
Trell: But would not slavery not fit into your "free Market WonderLand" We know Child labor is there

Not preventing parents from voluntarily sending their children to work rather then watch them starve is kind of different from forcing a person to part with his freedom or property.

What, you insist that the children starved? Surely, the child is not sent to the mine if the parents could sent him to a private boarding school instead.

miko

**Yawn**

Amazing that the same people argue about the same things that they were just told not to argue about.

BigGun · « **Reply #20 on:** January 07, 2004, 01:22:57 PM »

If you so anti-government or whatever you want to call it..why not just move & get the **** out. Try to find someplace where the gov. doesn't take your $$ & redistribute.

AKIron · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2004, 01:25:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
Saintaw: I don't see what was so "political" about what Miko said. Is it illegal to dissagree now?

Pretty much anything I say on this board is political, Saintaw.

"Political" basically means coercive, under the threat of violence. As opposite to voluntary, economic or charitable ways of human cooperation.

Every time I speak against coercion - especially governmental coercion, that's political. Even if that coercion caused some spectacuar visible results (and plenty of ignored ones that may not be so great).

Some people think that slavery is OK, if it is used in good (personally approved by them or condoned by majority) causes. I disagree with them. But they are not wrong in accusing me of politicising the issues.

miko

Some people think slavery is ok? They are wrong for accusing you of politicising? Since Skuzzy is the one that said you were wrong for politicisng and your quoted response refers to that thread are you then saying he thinks slavery is ok? Maybe you'd care to clarify just what you are trying to say?

miko2d · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2004, 01:41:56 PM »

BigGun: If you so anti-government or whatever you want to call it..why not just move & get the **** out. Try to find someplace where the gov. doesn't take your $$ & redistribute.

Governments are pretty much elsewhere. The switch from free society to socailism started in 1870s and occured pretty much everywhere in the western world and was exported to the other areas.

A reluctant slave/serf may still prefer one master to another. That does not equate to the general agreement to oppression.

I have problems with government oppression in general.
I make examples based on american government actions because such examples would be most undersatndable to americans. Even though it is not the most oppressive government.

When I talk to other people, I try to find examples from their own experience.

They are wrong for accusing you of politicising?

If you read what I said, I specifically wrote that "they" are absolutely correct accusing me of politicising. That's what I am talking about - politics. I do not hide it.

Some people think slavery is ok? Maybe you'd care to clarify just what you are trying to say?

Taking away the people's property, results of their labor by coercion is oppression/slavery. Even if one is claiming to act in the coerced person's interests or someone else interests or because he is in majority.

miko

AKIron · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2004, 01:44:53 PM »

I misread it Miko. However, I wasn't really questioning that so much as trying to nail down if you were talking about Skuzzy. I'll ask it more plainly. Are you saying that Skuzzy thinks slavery is ok? That seems to me to be the point of your post.

Nakhui · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2004, 01:48:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
miko

Government EVIL EVIL... BAAAAAD!

Anarchy GOOOOOD

Government EVIL EVILE... BAAAAD!

Anarchy GOOOOOD!

Roads are BAAAAAD

Thick brush and forests GOOOD!

Electricty and lights in the house are BAAAAAD!

Candles and lanterns GOOOOD!!!

Police, EMT and Fire departments are BAAAAD!!!

Suddenly dying and no one around for miles GOOOOD!!

Telephone BAAAAAD!

Smoke signals and drums GOOOOD!

miko2d · « **Reply #25 on:** January 07, 2004, 02:07:22 PM »

AKIron: I'll ask it more plainly. Are you saying that Skuzzy thinks slavery is ok? That seems to me to be the point of your post.

Of course not. I am sure Skuzzy is against slavery in general. I believed that pointing out to him that the project he is rejoicing about was financed by extorted money would be the same kind of service as pointing out to a jew that the tasty snack he intends to it is pork. Or pointing out that a present someone's got is a stolen property.

I suspect that most people just do not think how the resources for their favorite projects are provided.

The great american railroads were financed primarily by the southern slave labor (cotton tariffs), the NASA programs are financed by taxes collected from people who might have preferred other uses for that money. I think it is important to understand that, regardless whether we can do anything about it.

miko

miko2d · « **Reply #26 on:** January 07, 2004, 02:09:58 PM »

Nakhui:
Roads are BAAAAAD
Thick brush and forests GOOOD!
Electricty and lights in the house are BAAAAAD!
Police, EMT and Fire departments are BAAAAD!!!
Suddenly dying and no one around for miles GOOOOD!!
Telephone BAAAAAD!

All those things are still mostly provided or were successfully provided by private enterprise.

miko

Skuzzy · « **Reply #27 on:** January 07, 2004, 02:12:59 PM »

I am very happy my tax dollars go to NASA. I wish more of it would be sent to NASA instead of the many programs the government funds that I consider superflous.

You are basically against taxes without having direct control on how they are spent, if I surmise correctly.

And again, a thread completely derailed.

AKIron · « **Reply #28 on:** January 07, 2004, 02:16:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
AKIron: I'll ask it more plainly. Are you saying that Skuzzy thinks slavery is ok? That seems to me to be the point of your post.

Of course not. I am sure Skuzzy is against slavery in general. I believed that pointing out to him that the project he is rejoicing about was financed by extorted money would be the same kind of service as pointing out to a jew that the tasty snack he intends to it is pork. Or pointing out that a present someone's got is a stolen property.

I suspect that most people just do not think how the resources for their favorite projects are provided.

The great american railroads were financed primarily by the southern slave labor (cotton tariffs), the NASA programs are financed by taxes collected from people who might have preferred other uses for that money. I think it is important to understand that, regardless whether we can do anything about it.

miko

OK, I think I understand now. You weren't saying that Skuzzy knowingly approves of slavery but that he does so unknowingly. So, you're equating forced taxation to slavery? I guess we have a different opinion as to what slavery is. I always thought of slavery as being primarily when someone was forced to work against their will. I don't believe that to be the case in America. I see plenty of people not working at all, some are even supported by the government.

miko2d · « **Reply #29 on:** January 07, 2004, 02:50:04 PM »

Skuzzy: And again, a thread completely derailed.

Sorry about that, I will try to keep my political emotion in check.

I am very happy my tax dollars go to NASA. I wish more of it would be sent to NASA instead of the many programs the government funds that I consider superflous.

I would also be happy to send much more of my money towards the research and discovery that have it spent on current consumption. I would even send that money to NASA if it were a private organisation operating in competitive envoronment and accountable to its contributors or shareholders.

You are basically against taxes without having direct control on how they are spent, if I surmise correctly.

Exactly. There are legitimate functions of government like protection of rights and property. Unfair competition with private business and research institutions is not one of them.

There are still plenty of people who are voluntarily funding all kinds of research, arts and other cultural acheivements. There were even more before governments persuaded people to leave the concern for the future to them. I am full of confidence in the spirit of free humans so I woudl not worry that the progress would stop or slow down. Much more likely it would accelerate.

miko