Author Topic: Land of the surveilled, home of the scared (Read 2210 times)

Rude · « **Reply #75 on:** January 08, 2004, 02:55:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FUNKED1
How the heck are we going to know if there is an abuse of power when the law makes secret the information regarding the records seizures?

C'mon....our friends in the press of course.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #76 on:** January 08, 2004, 02:56:24 PM »

Rude,
that U.S citizen whas held for months with no trail, no charges. Nothing.

No rights.

Would you say the same if it was your mother or brother or whife?

The U.S supreme court said Bush was wrong and had to charge him or let him go. So they thought it was an abuse.

Creamo · « **Reply #77 on:** January 08, 2004, 02:57:34 PM »

I had no idea the Patriot Act was the basis for that debacle...I stand corrected

I'm certain you have no idea, it's the obvious points we are discussing I'm trying to enlighten you on, and asking you to define "abuse of power".

I won't ask again, certainly you can be clever enough as the whine of the week to answer, not dodge the question.

Rude · « **Reply #78 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:08:42 PM »

Here's my reality.

Enemies of this countrry have openly and publically stated their intent on inflicting maximum damage and loss of life to our country and it's citizens....the intent as just recently stated by Bin Laden, to destroy America.

Civil liberities are a luxury that a spoiled and undeserving nation has grown to accept as deserved and not earned.

To fight this threat, actions must be taken to discover the intent and to eliminate those who wish to enact the same on American property and citizenship. This is serious work....if you people knew 10% of the truth, you would piss yourselves.

Gloves off.....our officials deserve the enviroment under which they can EFFECTIVELY prosecute this war on terror....not have a courtroom fiasco where the law and justice is perverted while we watch on TV...of course, this would never happen, correct?

One nuclear weapon detonated on US soil and all of you will cry out....HOW COULD THIS OF HAPPENED????

You would blame the current administration of negligence and call for Bush's head.

Most of you just want your cake and to eat it as well....not how real life works.

There will be no violations of innocent American citizens civil rights under the Patriot Act....this statement stands true thru today....the rest of the cries are born of fear and a dislike for this president.

BTW....you're right Creamo....Waco was wrong....no conspiracy by the government to take away our rights....simply gross negligence by Reno and a President who lacked the stones to stand up to her.

Rude · « **Reply #79 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:10:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Rude,
that U.S citizen whas held for months with no trail, no charges. Nothing.

No rights.

Would you say the same if it was your mother or brother or whife?

The U.S supreme court said Bush was wrong and had to charge him or let him go. So they thought it was an abuse.

The US Supreme Court thinks alot of things....doesn't always make them right....I know...highest court in the land.

Rude · « **Reply #80 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:12:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Creamo
I had no idea the Patriot Act was the basis for that debacle...I stand corrected

I'm certain you have no idea, it's the obvious points we are discussing I'm trying to enlighten you on, and asking you to define "abuse of power".

I won't ask again, certainly you can be clever enough as the whine of the week to answer, not dodge the question.

Abuse would be the exercise of power designed to protect our nation from the current terrorist threat, directed towards unrelated persons or organizations with the intent to punish or coerce behavior favorable to this administration or any other government agency or party.

Hows that fancy pants:)

Eagler · « **Reply #81 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:15:46 PM »

damned if he does and damned if he doesn't

i'll take the over cautious approach and worry less while watching a movie, shopping in a mall or taking the grandchild to the circus ... sorry if it ain't perfect...

narsus · « **Reply #82 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:17:17 PM »

So much for innocent until proven guilty, and right to a fair trial.

Nefarious · « **Reply #83 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:19:37 PM »

How is the case of Osama Awadallah not an abuse of Power?

Authorities “made several misrepresentations and omissions” to get an arrest warrant for Awadallah and then misapplied the material witness statute to have him testify before a grand jury, she said. “If the government has probable cause to believe a person has committed a crime, it may arrest that person,” she wrote. “But since 1789, no Congress has granted the government the authority to imprison an innocent person in order to guarantee that he will testify before a grand jury conducting a criminal investigation.”

Creamo · « **Reply #84 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:30:43 PM »

Civil liberities are a luxury that a spoiled and undeserving nation has grown to accept as deserved and not earned.

Well, ya got balls for thinking that. Vets might differ. I have to go to lunch with Cathy, shop, and pay my water bill. If you asked me today to load up guns and fight off a enemy, like the ATF shooting Cathy in the garage over a gun warrent, you'd see some true squealing Patriot **** like the ATF did in Waco, with me shooting back.(BTW, I have 1 step left in my ATF LEUP left to go, the blackpowder can I bought at a hobby store is equally illegal as a weapon, Shhhh.)

BTW....you're right Creamo....Waco was wrong....no conspiracy by the government to take away our rights....simply gross negligence by Reno and a President who lacked the stones to stand up to her.

No conspiracy? They staged a media circus to give good light to their past F'ups, taking AMERICANS lives. I have the right to live, don't you?

MJHerman · « **Reply #85 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:37:42 PM »

"Civil liberities are a luxury that a spoiled and undeserving nation has grown to accept as deserved and not earned."

Ummm...no.

Liberal democratic tradition (and "liberal" in the sense of academic philosophy NOT political ideology) is that all men are born free and enjoy certain God given rights. The fundamental basis of democracy is that those rights are not "granted" to someone or "earned" by them, but rather are inherent in each person at birth.

The social covenant is that, notwithstanding those inherent rights, they are subject to restrictions, i.e., break the law, you go to jail, and lose your right to move freely as you choose. However, those limitations may only be imposed in accordance with due process.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #86 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:39:32 PM »

Rude
With our borders as open as they are a nuke going of in this nation is just a mater of time.

I will blame who ever is responsible for not securing our borders. Right now that man is Bush.

I will not be surprised when it happens at all.

I respect that you have thought out your position, and though I do not agree with you I can see your point.

My only counter point would be, the terrorist have done more damage then just killing 3000 of us, because the government is doing what it is doing. Slowly our rights and freedoms away.

Yeager · « **Reply #87 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:46:03 PM »

So, all one of Osamas boys simply has to do is become a citizen and he is off limits, free to use the protection of the constitution to terrorize me. Thats what I expect of the crafty bearded one. To get his boys under the protection of the constitution. How better to avoid detection than through privacy protection.

Some here would like to make me regret it when I say that I trust the powers of government when the nation is at war against militant fanatical islam. But I do not regret saying it. September 11, 2001 still resonates within me as a day worth remembering. The day that makes 9/11 look like a hiccup is just around the corner and so many complain about their lack of privacy during war.

Since I am not in a position to detect attacks before they happen, I will allow for the reduction in my privacy to better enable those that are in a position to defend me to do so.

Rude · « **Reply #88 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:47:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by narsus
So much for innocent until proven guilty, and right to a fair trial.

You just now have become concerned about justice and fair trials?

It's eye's wide open time....our justice system is porked....more abuse takes place each and every day in courtrooms across this nation then will ever take place by any mandate of the Patriot Act and it's enforcers.

Where are the cries of foul play by you guys regarding the years of injustice served against men and victims of crime in this country.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #89 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:47:43 PM »

Quote

Civil liberities are a luxury that a spoiled and undeserving nation has grown to accept as deserved and not earned.

Chilling words.
Won't be long before Godwin visits this thread.