Author Topic: Favorite parts of the State of the Union  (Read 5386 times)

Offline Kieran

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Favorite parts of the State of the Union
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2004, 08:57:54 PM »
Yes, Gscholz is an unbelievable ass, and he'll be whining about me making personal attacks any minute now, after that ad hominem attack on all Americans. And towd will be in here right after egging him on.

But Gscholz doesn't hate Americans. Noooooo....

Offline crowMAW

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« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2004, 08:59:25 PM »
Many did not give Bush high marks for the speech.

http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/8565.html
« Last Edit: January 21, 2004, 09:02:27 PM by crowMAW »

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2004, 09:02:13 PM »
How does the fact my country's leaders broke any international law make me a, and I quote:

"international criminals, liars, breakers of treaties, warmongerers and untrustworthy."

?

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #78 on: January 21, 2004, 09:10:51 PM »
Gee, somehow when you say things like:

Quote
The US cannot be trusted. It's that simple. I would never do bussiness with a US company if substancial money was involved.


and

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Unless the US can prove that Iraq was a genuine threat and that an attack was imminent the US will to the rest of the world be international criminals, liars, breakers of treaties, warmongerers and untrustworthy.


I take that to be more than speaking about my country's leadership.

You use hyperbole, I use hyperbole. Besides, saying you felt personal angst over your country's involvement in Yugoslavia doesn't absolve your country's part in the affair. Either it was legal or it wasn't. At least, that's what you keep telling us about the US, anyway.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #79 on: January 21, 2004, 09:21:24 PM »
So is it fair to say Norway is "international criminals, liars, breakers of treaties, warmongerers and untrustworthy."?

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #80 on: January 21, 2004, 09:24:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Btw. your quoting me in your sig with an altered text shows me how sincere you really are.


Stop whining. You are quoting me completely out of context in your sig. Tit for tat. Once again, you seem unable to see the same faults in yourself you see in others...

EDIT: BTW, my "sincerity" isn't the issue, your hypocrisy is.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2004, 09:26:21 PM by Kieran »

Offline Murdr

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« Reply #81 on: January 21, 2004, 10:24:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
In 1991 the US was not at war with Iraq, nor was Norway or any of the other forces there. We were all part of a UN coalition. The UN made the ceasefire agreement with Iraq, the UN and Iraq alone can decide to invalidate it and/or take actions as a consequence.

I would direct you toward resolution 678 which “authorizes Member States” to “use all necessary means to uphold and implement” the resolution demanding Iraq’s withdrawal from Kuwait and “all subsequent relevant resolutions” and to “restore international peace and security in the area.”
Resolution 1441 lists 678 as a relevant resolution,  and no other relevent resolutions revoke the authorization made in 678.  A coalition of Member States did in fact use authorized force to implement relevant SC resolutions.
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No war is legal without a UN mandate unless it is conducted in self-defence, which is why WMD is such an important issue. Unless the US can prove that Iraq was a genuine threat and that an attack was imminent the US will to the rest of the world be international criminals, liars, breakers of treaties, warmongerers and untrustworthy. You signed the UN Charter, as did most other nations in good faith.



Furthermore, according to Professor Michael Glennon, of Tufts University, there have been about 100 cases of the use of force in international affairs since the UN charter was established which did not recieve authorization by the Security Counsel.  
Is it now your assertion that those cases were illegal?  If it is, Article 39 puts the responsibility of determining of, and acting upon, on the Security Counsel.  
How do you explain the NATO (including French) attack on Yugoslavia without Security Council approval?
How is it that since 1945 the Security Council has authorised force in so few cases, or exorcized their discretion outlined in Articles 39 through 41?

You can accuse the Security Council of inaction, but it is by Charter the burden of the Security Council to make those determinations and take nessecery action.  The SC did not close out its authorization that applied to subsequent resolutions.  Then again the SC did not give specific authorization.  Then again the SC did not specifically act to obstruct the coilition.  You are in effect arguing that a person in your interpretation is breaking the law and therefore a criminal, and ignoring the judges ruling that a crime was not committed.  
 
In this case the Security Counsel acted with Resolution 1483 recognizing the allied forces in Iraq as legal "occupying forces under unified command"

Offline RightF00T

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« Reply #82 on: January 21, 2004, 10:39:48 PM »
Probably the saddest thing I've ever seen....is a mosquito sucking on a mummy.  Forget it, little friend...

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #83 on: January 22, 2004, 12:29:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
In case you're not up to current events my government is in bed with yours. Despite being reluctant early on we now have troops in Iraq. To use an analogy I know you will not like; we're Austria or Switzerland... you're The Reich.


I'm sorry GS, but this analogy is totally inapropriate...

Did the USA threaten to invade Norway if they did not go along?  Did we annex Norway and then conscript your young men to go go fight?

This is the kind of unrealisistic and reaching comparsion that generates all those motive and intent doubts I have about people who oppose the USA now.... It comes across as if you really do want to belive that USA is nazi germnay and bush is hitler. Want to to belive it desperately instead of being resonable about what is really going on.  Like the comparisons of Guantanomo and the nazi death camps some make, really bad, really inapppropriate.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2004, 12:31:49 AM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #84 on: January 22, 2004, 12:37:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The NATO war on Yugoslavia was illegal, and I have said so repeatedly.


What'd I miss?

Last time you and I talked about it, the best description you could come up with was "fishy".

Now you're agreeing it was illegal?

I may have to read this whole thread.  ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #85 on: January 22, 2004, 02:37:25 AM »
Bash Norway then!  :)

BOOO Norway!  Bad!  BOOO!  <---- Like that!

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #86 on: January 22, 2004, 02:39:38 AM »
This man is worse than Hitler!!!



 :D ;)

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #87 on: January 22, 2004, 06:11:54 AM »
My work here is done. :)

Offline kappa

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« Reply #88 on: January 22, 2004, 09:08:53 AM »
my new fav...

.....our government is working and has uncovered dozens of weapons of mass destruction related activities.........

hehe related.. what the **** is that??
- TWBYDHAS

Offline Rude

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« Reply #89 on: January 22, 2004, 09:14:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Bush is going to spend the rest of his term (and possibly his next one) trying to justify war against Iraq.

There's a legacy for ya... :aok


He's not interested in a leaving a legacy like some we know...he's interested in doing what's best for our country....the Dems have and will continue to do all they can to slow him down.

Typical