Author Topic: nightmare for a rook... (Read 7240 times)

roofer · « **Reply #60 on:** January 23, 2004, 07:18:57 AM »

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Originally posted by Zazen13
Umm, that is rediculous. Average RoC is 2,500ft/Minute+ that's 8 minutes to get to 20k if you start out at a sea level base. I think what you are seeing is the average player is a lazy, undisciplined, easily bored member of the quake generation. Those seeking immediate gratification who are either unable or unwilling to put the time, effort, and patience in to fly in a systematic and intelligent manner. Outside of the computer genre, I call these people the "Fast food generation", those people who expect to have society provide total and immediate satiation of their desires on a whim.

Too many quake type adrenalin freaks are complacent to just up a spit5, niki, etc. and start turning with the first red con that presents itself then wonder with doe eyed innocence why someone with more patience, discipline and forethought than themselves comes along with advantage and aggressively replanes them, over and over and over...Get a clue, fly smart yourself, or learn to derive enjoyment from dying repeatedy at the hands of those who do

Zazen

BRAVO!

SlapShot · « **Reply #61 on:** January 23, 2004, 08:12:54 AM »

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Originally posted by Shane
no mercy! dam spray weenies!!

Shane .. you have to be red to do that ...

or we could go to the DA. I could use a good prettythang beating (Nomak was the last to oblige me) and maybe some pointers.

SlapShot · « **Reply #62 on:** January 23, 2004, 08:20:52 AM »

I'm trying with the Corsair 1D again this tour - have always liked it, for some reason. But in no way can it turnfight with planes like the Spit V and N1K and other turn-on-a-sixpence London taxi type planes. So when I see all this bleating from the pilots of the slow, manoeuvrable planes that "some guys won't come down and fight on my terms", it makes me laugh.

Beet ... <> to you for jumping in the 1D. Very nice plane. No it can't turn with a Spit V, but you don't have to turn with the Spit inorder to kill it. The N1K ... I think that it can dance with the N1K.

Most people think that the first and only thing that one must do in these TnB planes is jerk the plane into the hardest and flatest turn they can get away with and then kill their opponent. 'Tis not the case. What most people forget, is to use the vertical in these planes. Stall figthing is their real strength and most people don't know how to fight in the vertical which gives you the immediate advantage.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #63 on:** January 23, 2004, 09:36:59 AM »

LOL! Zazen, come down off your high horse before you hit your head on the ceiling.

Aces High is a game and nothing more. There's no such thing as flying "smart" or flying "dumb" but rather flying for what is fun for the individual player. Flying in a manner inconsistent with one's enjoyment of the game is the only "dumb" way of flying in my book.

-- Todd/Leviathn

lazs2 · « **Reply #64 on:** January 23, 2004, 09:41:32 AM »

choosing the fastest plane in the game and then being as timid as possible taking no risk is not really what this game is about for a lot of us.

I believe that the so called strat has made that "style" much more important .... the worst maps... pizza for instance make it the only "smart" thing to do ..

but what is smart? how smart do yu have to be to choose the fastest late war planes in the game? How smart is it to simply never put yourself in danger. I submit that it not only doesn't take any smarts at all but that it is also simply.... boring.

What is more fun? killing someone who never even sees you from a perch that it took you 10 minutes of doing nothing to get to or.... mixing it up with 10 early war planes in 5 minutes and having your SA and ACM strained to the max?

what is better... dieng because the odds finaly caught up with you but getting 2 or 3 before you do or.... being a sky accountant who never earned a kill in his life and knows deep down that he never has learned to fight?

I spit on the sky accountants and their excuses that patience and plane choice equal skill...

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #65 on:** January 23, 2004, 09:49:53 AM »

Oh.. and killu.. what closer fields do is stratify the fights. There would, as you say, be nothing to stop the sky acountant from taking off in his late war monster 1 or even 2 fields back and goint to 20k... he might even meet other sky accountants up there and they could spend joyful hors hiding from each other looking for that 'advantage" but...

the furballers would be in low slow planes and fighting between close fields.. the sky accountants could pork fuel and it wouldn't matter.. the fights would be within 25% range. there would be the late war planes fighting at alt and the furballers fighting low... there would be medium alt guys who wanted action but were too timid to really mix it up looking for a way to kill at the edge of the furs but... anyone who dove into the furs would be either a part of the fur or meat for the other sky accountants when they egressed (made their sissy pass and ran away).

If I am in a large fur at low alt the 20k sky accountant isn't even in the game so far as I am concerned.

This is the only way it will work if you want all planes available all the time.

lazs

Urchin · « **Reply #66 on:** January 23, 2004, 12:20:56 PM »

Works for me, now all someone has to do is design a map around that philosophy.

11dano11 · « **Reply #67 on:** January 23, 2004, 12:49:03 PM »

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Leviathan --"Aces High is a game and nothing more. There's no such thing as flying "smart" or flying "dumb" but rather flying for what is fun for the individual player. Flying in a manner inconsistent with one's enjoyment of the game is the only "dumb" way of flying in my book."--

There it is. I'm a pony driver, because for me the thrill of these sims is flying with my squadies, hunting down the bad guys, killing as many as possible and then bringing all of us safely home to our sheep.

The pony is well suited for this mostly because it has legs, both fuel and ammo. I can climb out and hunt for an hour without having to constantly land and reup. I can fly a sctr and a half or two sctrs with my favorite wingman, slap a cap on an enme field and single-handedly shut down their assualt on our field, and then fly home to land 7 kills. Doing that successfully is immensely satisfying for me.

On the other hand, grabbing a stall-fighter and flying to the nearest furball to 'fly till I die' is simply dead boring. I've done it, and I can kill 2, 3 or 4 before they get me, but so what. There's no strategery, no tactical thinking, no teamwork, no larger scale SA... only the me right here right now.

Boooooring. So Lazs, you guys go ahead and have fun fighting it out to see who's "THE BEST" and I'll have fun with my buddies.

Fair enough?

beet1e · « **Reply #68 on:** January 23, 2004, 02:37:47 PM »

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Originally posted by SlapShot
Beet ... <> to you for jumping in the 1D. Very nice plane. No it can't turn with a Spit V, but you don't have to turn with the Spit inorder to kill it. The N1K ... I think that it can dance with the N1K.

Most people think that the first and only thing that one must do in these TnB planes is jerk the plane into the hardest and flatest turn they can get away with and then kill their opponent. 'Tis not the case. What most people forget, is to use the vertical in these planes. Stall figthing is their real strength and most people don't know how to fight in the vertical which gives you the immediate advantage.

Oooh! An from Slapshot.

Yeah, the F4U1D is nice. When flying into a "situation", I like to use the Yoyo manoeuvre. It helps me to do something with the excess speed I might have - ie convert it into height - and also gets the speed closer to that all important cornering speed so that I can at least turn and follow that con. The Corsair has a very good roll rate, and so those yoyo turns can be completed in reasonable time. The other thing is using that roll rate in a vertical dive to egress from the dive in any direction. Do it right, and the con's turning won't save him.

sax · « **Reply #69 on:** January 23, 2004, 02:58:09 PM »

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Originally posted by 11dano11

Boooooring. So Lazs, you guys go ahead and have fun fighting it out to see who's "THE BEST" and I'll have fun with my buddies.

Fair enough?

Ya know he's hit it right on the head here 15 min climb out-15 min level--30 minutes to visit and make buddies.

Furball dweebs don't have the luxury of time spent in relative safety to make buds--what a waste:(

Zazen13 · « **Reply #70 on:** January 23, 2004, 03:01:01 PM »

Obviously, people get their jollies in many different ways. I readily admit I don't understand how putting oneself in a compromising situation on purpose where getting killed is almost a foregone conclusion is fun, but apparently for some it is. If you are one of those who derives fun from pissing into the wind with your free fly-time, knock yourself out. The problem I have is the people who fly in this manner then whine everytime someone who chooses to fly more realistically/intelligently, whatever word you want to use, kills them.

If you want to fly low and slow, flat break turning with the first red con you happen upon just be aware you are a ripe fruit begging to be plucked by everyone else who chooses not to fly this way. So, as long as you are comfortable with that fact and don't whine when the inevtitable happens to you it's all good....

Remember, this whole thread started with a thinly veiled whine about Rooks flying together and higher, which, by the way, is exactly how fighters flew in WW2 and for good reason...it is the best way to achieve local air superiority

Zazen

11dano11 · « **Reply #71 on:** January 23, 2004, 04:21:51 PM »

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Ya know he's hit it right on the head here ~~15 min climb out-15 min level--30 minutes to visit and make buddies.~~

~~Generally it takes about 10 minutes tops from gear up to on station. I guess it just SEEMS like 30 minutes to some~~

SlapShot · « **Reply #72 on:** January 23, 2004, 04:48:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zazen13
Obviously, people get their jollies in many different ways. I readily admit I don't understand how putting oneself in a compromising situation on purpose where getting killed is almost a foregone conclusion is fun, but apparently for some it is. If you are one of those who derives fun from pissing into the wind with your free fly-time, knock yourself out. The problem I have is the people who fly in this manner then whine everytime someone who chooses to fly more realistically/intelligently, whatever word you want to use, kills them.

If you want to fly low and slow, flat break turning with the first red con you happen upon just be aware you are a ripe fruit begging to be plucked by everyone else who chooses not to fly this way. So, as long as you are comfortable with that fact and don't whine when the inevtitable happens to you it's all good....

Remember, this whole thread started with a thinly veiled whine about Rooks flying together and higher, which, by the way, is exactly how fighters flew in WW2 and for good reason...it is the best way to achieve local air superiority

Zazen

Zazen ...

Let me repeat what DMF said one more time ... Aces High is a game and nothing more

If I were alive in 1943, and a fighter pilot, you could bet your sweet bippy that I would be, or strive to be, one of the best sky accountants known to man ... cause it was all real.

This is merely a game ... virtual pixelization of WWII planes. I don't know if you really realize it yet, but we don't really die ... no kidding ... I josh you not.

So why all the timidity and the BS excuse that "is exactly how fighters flew in WW2". Cause ya don't wanna die and possibly face the fact that someone just waxed your bellybutton in a fair 1 v 1 fight. Oh the humility of it all. Best part of getting your arse beat in this game is you can learn from it, adjust, and the next fight will be different.

The style of flying you descrbve is merely winning a fight by a "sucker" punch, rather than squaring off fairly and may the best man win, walk away. Anyone can win using a sucker punch ... it takes skill to look them in the eye and beat them with knowledge.

I know for a fact that I can sneak up on my karate instructor and with one punch, knock him into the subconcious, but sqaure off and meet him fairly, and he can wipe the floor with me if he so chooses. He beats me every time we spar, but each fight becomes more of a challenge for him because I learn something new about him and how to better utilize what I have learned from each prior fight.

This game is no different. You won't learn if you don't lose.

GODO · « **Reply #73 on:** January 23, 2004, 04:54:13 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
What is more fun? killing someone who never even sees you

That is what happens systematically in the furballs: 20 target-focused sprayers pursuing one out of other 20 target-focused sprayers that are already pursuing one of the first group.

11dano11 · « **Reply #74 on:** January 23, 2004, 05:43:30 PM »

Slapshot, I agree that some folks (ahem, on both sides) seem to take their positions on this debate awfully seriously, but I don't see anything wrong with wanting to land kills. As you say, this is a game, and >THE GAME< rewards you for landing kills. It's part of the game.

It's not that it's a matter of life and death, it's just how my play style developed. Landing kills = good, getting shot down = bad. Way back in my early AW days I was really focused on my K/D. Nowadays, I have no idea what my score is, how many perk points I have, how I am rated or anything else. But I still play to land kills, and I still play as part of a team.

Why is that a problem for so many people? After all, it's how the game was originally set up. The truth is, it's the PURISTS who are NOT playing the game.