Author Topic: How many feel that their countries gun laws are too strict... (Read 3005 times)

Tarmac · « **Reply #105 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:11:15 PM »

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Originally posted by Curval
Fair point Tarmac...

Clearly there were tyrants ruling the US back then.

Not everyone can be as enlightened as I am.

ravells · « **Reply #106 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:15:22 PM »

Simple. Because the papists were the biggest religious oppressive group. Ever since Luther and Calvin and the advent of printing, the pope found his power slipping down the plug hole.

I'm fairly certain (could be wrong) that the originator of the Mormons...Joseph Smith, I think? (yes they were 19th century) originated from England, there is a good Sherlock Holmes novel about this...I think it's 'A Study in Scarlet'. I'm sure Conan Doyle would have done the research but I cant vouch for it.

Tarmac · « **Reply #107 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:16:18 PM »

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Originally posted by Curval
I need to do some research, but I think you guys are getting mixed up. Weren't the puritans merely really "pure" protestants? By definition "protestants" were named for there protest for being under the religious rules of the Pope...in Italy.

Tarmac...the papists weren't named...the protestants were according to your quote.

My quote doesn't mention them, but Papists are singled out in the document, repeatedly. In the list of grievances/preamble, they are specifically mentioned in regards to being armed:

"By causing several good subjects, being protestants, to be disarmed, at the same time when papists were both armed and employed, contrary to law."

Protestants, by my working definition, are Christians that do not follow the Catholic church - ie those that broke off in the protestant reformation in the 1500's or followed suit later. So you've got a clear split in Christianity between Catholics and Protestants, with protestantism being further split into various denominations.

Tarmac · « **Reply #108 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:18:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ravells
I'm fairly certain (could be wrong) that the originator of the Mormons...Joseph Smith, I think? (yes they were 19th century) originated from England, there is a good Sherlock Holmes novel about this...I think it's 'A Study in Scarlet'. I'm sure Conan Doyle would have done the research but I cant vouch for it.

Quite possible that he was English, but he shouldn't have been a Mormon before he came to America, as he had his vision out west somewhere (IIRC). Mormonism shouldn't even have existed before his prophecy, so how could mormons oppress anyone back in England at the time of the English Bill of Rights?

ravells · « **Reply #109 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:23:08 PM »

I'm guessing he was some weirdo who had a cult in mind which is why he left England.

I'll have to research the 'weird religious cults who went to America' subject sometime else, but there were quite a few who went there when America was being colonised. Ironically, because they had the freedom to oppress their own small communities who went with them. The English were pleased because they found colonists and got rid of a local problem. Of course that caught up with the English when they all started revolting, but that was for very different reasons.

As for the 'vision' well...hmm

Ravs

Tarmac · « **Reply #110 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:25:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ravells
I'm guessing he was some weirdo who had a cult in mind which is why he left England.

As for the 'vision' well...hmm

Ravs

There's a wonderful South Park episode about the foundation of Mormonism - I'd highly recommend downloading it.

ravells · « **Reply #111 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:26:31 PM »

ohhh! love to see it! do you know the title of the episode?

Curval · « **Reply #112 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:28:21 PM »

Right..okay, I'm with you now.

So the English Bill of Rights as it relates to self protection is essentially a "get back" for Protestants, because prior to 1689 this right was extended to Catholics (Papists) only.

A little selective quoting going on there bud.

No need to explain what a protestant is to me old chap...I'm one of 'em.

Sooooo...where are we, and what was the point of all this history again?

Ah yes...it "kind of" proves Dune had a good point...in a very round-about circular kind of way.

Guns are indeed cute and fund.

I still don't want them freely availiable in my country though.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #113 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:28:46 PM »

http://www.xmission.com/~research/about/

The Mormon religion is based upon the story and religious teachings of Joseph Smith. Smith was the founding prophet and first elder/president of the church. The original church was established in western New York state on 6 April 1830 in the Township of Manchester, Ontario County, New York (new research has found this to be the organizational site).

Joseph Smith was a prophet dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.
-SW

Tarmac · « **Reply #114 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:29:43 PM »

"All About Mormons," episode 712 (season 7 episode 12), I believe.

ed: Apparently SW has seen it, juding from his song about Joseph Smith.

ravells · « **Reply #115 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:31:03 PM »

Ta muchly!, Tarmac

Tarmac · « **Reply #116 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:34:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
Right..okay, I'm with you now.

So the English Bill of Rights as it relates to self protection is essentially a "get back" for Protestants, because prior to 1689 this right was extended to Catholics (Papists) only.

A little selective quoting going on there bud.

No need to explain what a protestant is to me old chap...I'm one of 'em.

Sooooo...where are we, and what was the point of all this history again?

Ah yes...it "kind of" proves Dune had a good point...in a very round-about circular kind of way.

Guns are indeed cute and fund.

I still don't want them freely availiable in my country though.

I'm lost now too. I don't remember what we were arguing about either.

I don't believe that the right extended only to Catholics before 1689 - it was probably universal.

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I still don't want them freely availiable in my country though.

I know that, as much as you know that I want them that way. But it sure is fun to argue about on teh intardnet.

-dead- · « **Reply #117 on:** February 10, 2004, 02:37:29 AM »

Hong Kong SAR Firearms And Ammunition Ordinance
Works for us. 3am strolls around the city lack the adrenaline rush of most US cities though.

beet1e · « **Reply #118 on:** February 10, 2004, 03:50:28 AM »

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Originally posted by -dead-
Hong Kong SAR Firearms And Ammunition Ordinance
Works for us. 3am strolls around the city lack the adrenaline rush of most US cities though.

Yeah, I remember stolling round Singapore in the small hours - no graffiti, no bums on the streets, no chewing gum on the pavement. Felt very safe...

Dune! ~~How's life in America's 6th largest city? :lol~~

-dead- · « **Reply #119 on:** February 10, 2004, 04:06:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e

Yeah, I remember stolling round Singapore in the small hours - no graffiti, no bums on the streets, no chewing gum on the pavement. Felt very safe...

Dune! ~~How's life in America's 6th largest city? :lol~~

Hehe, strictly speaking, you're arguing against yourself there, beet1e - In Singapore almost all males are issued with and must use a firearm - it's compulsory . Although I doubt anyone is allowed to own a private one.