Author Topic: Was this God's plan for Carlie?  (Read 4427 times)

Offline MrCoffee

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2004, 04:29:03 PM »
I think Cod does have a plan, if you knew what it was, it wouldnt be much of a plan. What if you were evil and decided to obstruct his plan? What if you were an over achiever do gooder and messed it up? I bet you Cod is Jewish though.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2004, 04:31:23 PM by MrCoffee »

Offline MRPLUTO

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2004, 04:29:14 PM »
banana, Good question, so good that I can't resist throwing in my thoughts.  I agree that gloves' response has been the best so far.

Gloves helped you realize that, in your words, "God is really not all powerful".

And here's a really scary idea:  maybe the plan is that there is no plan, except the one we choose to make.  Deists believed that God made the world, then stepped back a left it to its own devices.  I think you're making a mistake trying to look at this from a narrow Christian point of view.

I believe that we are free to become and do anything in this existence.  That doesn't mean we should, just that we can.  The Creator doesn't interfere.  There are no miracles.  Do people make "miraculous" recoveries and escapes from certain death?  Yes, but not because a higher power intervened.

Taoist teaching says that for there to be good there must also be evil.  They are created simultaneously, like light and shadow.  For anything to exist, it's opposite must also exist.

If there is a Creator, why did it create this world?  To create new,  genuine souls/spirits?  (That would be us, and any other advanced life out there.)  I certainly feel that I am free to chose, at each moment of my life, how I will react to it and deal with other souls.  This is a chance to become something....anything.

I have no religion, and believe that all religions are made by humans (mostly men), and usually from an age even less enlightened than our own.  Nevertheless, following Taoist teachings, I believe it is important to admire the wise of all religions.  So perhaps the Hindus are right when they suggest that we are reborn as higher and higher forms of life until we no longer have to come back and suffer existence.  Or, if we make really bad choices we return as lower life forms, doomed to suffer many more lives & rebirths.  Jesus said it was possible for a sinner to repent, change his ways, and still move onward spiritually.  Who knows for sure.  Not I.

For me, it is very hard to forgive a God or Creator who would create a world where such atrocities take place.  My only answer is that there must be free will to allow us to become something unique.  In any other kind of world, we spirits would be no different from the artificial intelligence in sims.

Perhaps existence is a means to produce companionship for a lonely God, and joy for those spirits that can co-exist in peace and love.  Do the pain and suffering of existence justify that purpose?  When I feel the answer is "yes", I guess that's what many people would call "having faith".
« Last Edit: February 06, 2004, 04:33:59 PM by MRPLUTO »

Offline 2Slow

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2004, 04:35:20 PM »
Agnostics are atheist who are hedging their bets.
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Offline mrblack

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2004, 04:39:38 PM »
God or no God this arse wart needs to die so her NEVER gets out and does it again.

Offline Mini D

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2004, 04:56:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by banana
Mini-D, since you're dancing around my original question, I'll try again.

Do you believe that it was God's plan to have Carlie die at age eleven at the hands of a brutal killer?
How would I know?  I don't presume to know the mind of God.

Besides, that's not really the question.  The fundamental question is "How can God allow bad things to happen".  Once again, that's simply philisophical.  Even more philisophical would be "Is God in control of everything or do we have choices".

I'm not dancing around a question banana.  There isn't an answer... there's only beliefs.

MiniD

Offline Yeager

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2004, 04:57:54 PM »
those that believe, believe this little girl is in a place of peace and understanding we stuck here do not/cannot grasp with our finite minds.. and that in the end she will be together again with those that were dearest to her in this life. Do not weep/pray for the child - her suffering is over, weep/pray for those left behind whose suffering just kicked into overdrive this morning.
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I wish I could think like this.  I want to dearly.  For her sake I am going to try aweful hard to give myself up and let go of my narrow belief system.  As it is I am constantly trying to find a reason that makes the suffering and pain in life worth it.

Something about this tragedy has hit me very hard.
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Offline Gman

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2004, 05:03:40 PM »
In order for there to be good, there must be evil.  Don't think that there wasn't any evil in the man who did this to Carlie, in fact, I'm certain you know there is.

Ever since there was war in heaven and the Angel Gabriel tossed Lucifer into fire, there has been a struggle between good and evil.  This struggle virtually defines our existance.  Sometimes evil wins, particularly here on earth, as in this case.

The end result will however be nothing short of total victory for the good guys.


banana, I admire you, in asking the questions you do.  I was very much in your camp until I started doing research and studying what people refer to as "faith".  I found out things about not just myself but also about the world around me that at times shocked me, terrified me, and ultimately inspired me.


You seem like a real smart guy based on what you usually write, even though our opinion differs, and I know how simple it is to write God off based on current world events and logic, but deep down I'm sure you know much of what's happening around us and what has happened to you in your life isn't truly explainable.  Grab some books written about the bible or faith in general and read through them and see if they affect your opinion at all.  They well may not, but in my case, the took my whole world apart.

Offline SOB

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2004, 05:16:57 PM »
If you need to seach for a meaning or a higher power, have at it.  If not, why worry about it.  If there is something after this life, then we'll each find out about it when we die.  If not, I doubt any of us will care...since we'll simply be worm food.
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Offline mrblack

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2004, 05:33:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
How would I know?  I don't presume to know the mind of God.

Besides, that's not really the question.  The fundamental question is "How can God allow bad things to happen".  Once again, that's simply philisophical.  Even more philisophical would be "Is God in control of everything or do we have choices".

I'm not dancing around a question banana.  There isn't an answer... there's only beliefs.

MiniD


Very well said Mini D

Offline 2Slow

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2004, 08:00:03 PM »
His probation officer tried to have his probation revoked and jailed Dec 30th.  Judge refused to revoke it.

Go figure.
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Offline mrblack

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2004, 08:01:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2Slow
His probation officer tried to have his probation revoked and jailed Dec 30th.  Judge refused to revoke it.

Go figure.


The judge should be removed from the bench for being an IDIOT.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2004, 09:22:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2Slow
Agnostics are atheist who are hedging their bets.


A good soundbite, but not entirely accurate.

An Atheist believes in the non existance of God.

This belief system is as much a leap of faith as belief in Him.

You can not get to Atheism or faith in God logically.

Agnostisism is non belief and is faithless.  It is based on the thought that lack of evidence proves nothing.
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Offline dfl8rms

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2004, 01:31:38 AM »
banana,

You know me, you know my stance.  Like others here, I can only speculate and express my beliefs/faith:

I can't really answer your question banana, as I cannot presume upon God as I believe He is GOD.  What I can ask is, due to this event, this evil action, has it caused yourself or someone else in this world to look for God?  to search for answers?  Could that not be in His plan?

Offline Yeager

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2004, 02:53:25 AM »
Eagler expressed it best and I have a "tendancy" to argree based upon my upbringing:
==================
those that believe, believe this little girl is in a place of peace and understanding we stuck here do not/cannot grasp with our finite minds.. and that in the end she will be together again with those that were dearest to her in this life. Do not weep/pray for the child - her suffering is over, weep/pray for those left behind whose suffering just kicked into overdrive this morning.
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Offline beet1e

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Was this God's plan for Carlie?
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2004, 03:06:31 AM »
banana,

Your initial post indicates that you are confused by tragic events. Some people here have attempted lengthy explanations.

I can be quite brief in my own explanation. Once you accept that there is no God, everything else makes sense.