"Bloody peasants..."

[Dowding]

Terry Jones of Monty Python fame has started a new documentary series (Medieval Lives) destroying some of the misconceptions surrounding Medieval life in Britain. Here are some interesting facts about peasants:

- an average factory worker in the UK works for around 80 days a year to pay his taxes to the government; a peasant would work for the Lord for 60 days to pay his

- the local Lord was required to throw banquets for his people at least twice a year

- we have 8 public holidays a year in the UK; peasants had nearer 80 holy-days

- peasants were well-versed in law, particularly legislature relating to tax, as demonstrated by one episode when the King was due to pass through a village on his way to Nottingham. This would make the village liable for more tax (it would become part of the King's highway), so when the King's advance party turned up the entire village pretended to be insane. Insanity was thought to be contagious in those days, so King decided to detour around the village, sparing them the increased taxation. I wonder how they explained their recovery "...I got better..."

- the middle peasants perhaps had more control over their lives than now in some ways; after the plague in the 1300s which killed half of England, there was a labour shortage and the peasants could basically name their price for their skills. They started buying flashy clothes, which were eventually outlawed because they started competing with the gentry.

- sadly it all came to an end after the Peasant's Revolt and the feudal system started to die. Peasants had achieved more independance from their Lords, who reciprocated by abolishing all the benefits and replacing peasants much more agreeable and productive sheep (true apparently).

OK, perhaps not the most interesting information you could read, but still... next week Terry Jones becomes a monk and looks at the monastries of England.

[Ripsnort]

I've been watching the series over here. Very good!

[Dowding]

I didn't realise it was on over the pond... has it been on long? I think it started here last night.

[straffo]

reading the thread tittle at first I thought that Stsanta was back for yetanotherallied bash

[Vermillion]

What Channel and Time? Sounds quite interesting.

[ra]

Originally posted by Dowding
I didn't realise it was on over the pond... has it been on long? I think it started here last night.

I first saw it a few weeks ago.  Strange.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Dowding
I didn't realise it was on over the pond... has it been on long? I think it started here last night.

I caught an episode about two weeks ago. It was hosted by this Monty Python ex:


I believe it came on a Sunday evening, but I came into the program about half way.  They were speaking of how the average peasant lived, what they ate (That porrage looked horrible, and Terry ATE some!)

Same program?

[Dowding]

Must be. That stuff looked pretty disgusting, even by British standards.

[Ripsnort]

Incidently, another favorite of mine used to be the program with Michael Palin and his travels around the world.

I would even go out on a limb and say that between the Beatles, and Monty Python, that America and England became closer to one another in any existing cultural differences prior to the aforementioned.

[Curval]

A curse on the local cable company here...useless tossers.  I'd really like to see that show.

[Dowding]

Yeah, they are excellent programs. Always amazed me how he could build a rapport with people who spoke no English and were from such different cultures. A rare and useful skill.

[miko2d]

Dowding: - sadly it all came to an end after the Peasant's Revolt and the feudal system started to die. Peasants had achieved more independance from their Lords, who reciprocated by abolishing all the benefits and replacing peasants much more agreeable and productive sheep (true apparently).

 It seems that Terry Jones confuses causes and consequenses - and understands not the least thing about economics. At least according to your quote - I have not seen the show.

 Does he really believe that pesants benefitted from exploiting the Lords under the feudal system?

 What are the population statistics of the period? I bet the population of England was exploding at the time of the feudal system dying. Somebody may feel sad that the population size was not held in check anymore by regular starvations and high child mortality but only if one is an inhuman monster or an environazi idiot.

 How come after the productive farming land was diverted for use as pasture for wool-production, there was no shortage of food and population kept growing?
 Could it be that improvments in farming technology made such production exessive? If so, any farming on such land would be waste of labor/resources that would not pay off. No wonder a sheep was more productive than a peasant farmer. At least sheep was producing something needed unlike farmer producing exess food.

 What if the unproductive farmer kept farming, where would he sell his produce - the prices would be so low as to not cover the transport to the market. Such farmer would not be able to buy any tools of implements. He would not be able to enjoy division of labor in the society and sink even further into powerty. He was basically destined to ruin by exess food production.

 And by the way, who bought all that wool (used for clothes if anyone wonders) produced profitably from millions of extra sheep? The king and lords? Somehow I do not think they lacked clothes before or even wore much wool.
 I believe most of the newly-made wool clothes went to the millions of peope who were not considered wealthy - but who still have means to pay for them and keep sheepherding profitable.

 Has anyone checked the numbers of employed in textile industry in England? The numbers of weavers jumped from hundreds to hundreds thousands in a course of decade. Who worked there? The same former peasants, switching from 18-hour back-breaking outdoor labor in harsh english climate with no guarantee of good harvest for indoor 10-12-14 hour non-physically exerting labor with payout guaranteed every week. Poor peasants. Could afford to have and fed and clothe more childen. They lived so much better under the feudal lord who owe them "benefits"...

 miko

[Westy]

Jones did another series a few years ago. I forget the name. But I've enjoyed these programs.  Michael Palin also did a few - "Pole to Pole" and "Around the Word..."  are two examples. Really well done and enlightening.

[Dowding]

1) I was paraphrasing from memory so I wouldn't use my account as an accurate depiction of Jones' conclusions

2) The war in France and the huge plague that preceeded the Peasant Revolt had thinned the population considerably. Perhaps that meant less land was needed for food production

3) You can buy the book of the series - it will probably answer some of your questions

Westy - Jones' previous program was about the Crusades. Never managed to see them all, but what I saw was excellent. Palin has done 4 'expedition' type programs... 'Around the World in 80 Days', 'Pole to Pole', 'Full Circle' and 'Sahara' (last year or the year before that). He also did a program looking at the life of Ernest Hemingway.

[Curval]

Miko...Jones is doing a show on what it was actually like to live as a peasant in those times.  I HOPE he stays well away from an economist's analysis...which are usually based in fantasy rather than reality.