F4U-4 vs La7

[SunTracker]

Was in a long range NOE mission (flying F4U-4 Corsair) that went bad.  Rest of my flight was P-47s, a few P-38s, and a C-47.  Well our guys somehow were unable to vultch a de-acked airfield ( ) while I was providing cover for C-47.  So I shoot down a few bandits headed for C-47, but then decide to bug out.  

I'm on the deck, using wep, and an La-7 is steady at 1.2k behind me.  I knew if I could get above 10,000 feet, his performance would drop off and I could get away from him.  Oh, let me mention that a Spit is also chasing me (this is why I did not want to engage La-7).  I did not think I could get to 10,000 without the La7 closing to firing range, so I turned and engaged the bolshivic.  Unfortunately the horrid tard flying the Spitfire swoops in and gets me as I am tangling with the La7.

What should I have done?  The La7 is slightly faster than the F4U-4 on the deck.   Not only that, the La7 continues to get faster up to 5,000 feet.  Can the Corsair outclimb the La7 in a highspeed climb perhaps (climbspeed 300 or something like that)?

[Wilbus]

The LA7 is as you said slightly faster at the deck when both are using WEP. Maybe 2-4Mph or so, enough to catch up in the long run. At 5k it's about 20mph faster(!) and it climbs with the F4U4 at these altitudes aswell.

How far was it to the nearest friendly field? And friends on radar nearby that you could have dragged to and called for help?

Judging from your story you did the right thing, atleast it's what I should have done unless a friendly field was within range before the LA7 could catch up, was he gaining on you quickly?

Outfighting LA7's and Spits in an F4u is difficult, it's possible but difficult and you may have to take chances on head ons. Maybe you should have blown by the LA7 in the merge (avoiding Head On) and gone for a long range head on shot on the spit (start shooting at 1.2k or so then turn away at 800 or 700 yards to avoid his rounds). If the spit is knocked down the fight is a whole nother thing.
Even if you had died in the head on atleast you would have taken one of the dweebs with you!

[SunTracker]

We were deep inside enemy territory.  Nearest friendly field was 100 miles at least.  The last time I saw friendly aircraft, it was two P-47s with 4 bandits on their sixes.

Yeah, I should have taken one of those bad guys with me.  I did blow past the La7 on my first pass, but the spitfire dove on me.  The La7 was about d700 behind me, which made me nervous.  Didnt want to die running.  And the spitfire was closing on me (was in my blind spot).  

I love flying on deep strikes though.  Exciting stuff.

[Flyboy]

i feel ya pain suntracker

i friggin hate La7s

[SunTracker]

I felt like I was pretty evenly matched with the La7.  But the spitfire ruined the fight.

[Urchin]

The La-7 is as fast (something like 1-2 mph slower or faster) than the F4U-4.  It accelerates better, climbs better.  As far as I know, it turns better.  

However, the F4U-4 will bleed off its speed a lot faster, and unlike most of the F4U's it actually has the acceleration to get it back, so your best bet is a hard turn (to bleed off speed and get him off of your immediate 6), followed by a barrel roll to force the overshoot.  Furthermore, you can drop your gear in the F4U to slow down even faster.  If the La-7 is flown halfway competently, you'll go from being at a direct disadvantage (1 la-7 700 yards behind you) to being at a more nuetral/disadvantage with the La-7 above you and faster.  You can work with this position to stay nuetral, and jump on the La-7 if he screws up.  If it is flown incompetently, he'll be to fast to stay behind you, but to slow to run away before you kill him.

[bozon]

Originally posted by SunTracker

What should I have done?  The La7 is slightly faster than the F4U-4 on the deck.   Not only that, the La7 continues to get faster up to 5,000 feet.  Can the Corsair outclimb the La7 in a highspeed climb perhaps (climbspeed 300 or something like that)?

LA7 has horrible guns. you can let him close to 800 yards before him spraying  might get risky.

the bet I would take is this:
run as long as I can before the LA starts firing using all WEP. Hopfully, this will take enough time to open a good distance from the spit - he will either give up, or you'll buy yourself time for 1-2 manuver with the LA7 (something like scissors as suggested above, to keep general heading  away from the spit. do not turn back).

If the spit makes it into the fight before you disposed of the lala, fight the spit and disregard the lala. these are both usually flown by inexperienced players and in those hands:
a spit will be chosen by someone who wants the kills, La7 will be chosen by the one who wants to run and survive.
The first is more likely to kill you and is easier to kill.

Bozon

[WldThing]

Originally posted by bozon
LA7 has horrible guns. you can let him close to 800 yards before him spraying  might get risky.

I've been hit my La7's bullets from 900-1k out,  but he did make a big arch with the bullet stream to hit that far out.

[humble]

Sounds like you picked the option that you felt the most comfortable with...no matter what you did you still had a tough 1 on 2...the la-7 keeps you from extending and the spitty will eat you up if you have to deal with the la-7.

Personally I'd of sided with Urchin and bozon...only thing I'd of done a bit differently maybe is use a simple nose down evasive...basically drex's "convergence of E state" thingie...works wonders...I'm guessing the la-7 is worried about the spitty stealing HIS kill and will chase the shot...it sets up a sweet fast reversal that usually gives you a solid look at 200-400...worst case your right where urchin puts you.

How much of a gap did you have between the la-7 and spitty?

[DREDIOCK]

Yea tough 2V1 fight on your hands.
No other real option then to fight them both.
My rule of thumb is to worry about the most dangerous plane first while trying to keep yourself in a position that makes it more difficult for the second plane to hit.
I almost always view the spit as the more dangerous plane.
Spits seem to turn ok pilots into VERY good pilots and Good pilots into superpilots.
La7 is also a VERY dangerous plane especially when comming at your 12:00 where the manuver and shot of choice for most pilots lately seems to be the boom and zoom HO deflection shot. (just a trend I noticed)
In the hands of a good pilot it turns and fights very well but still is not as dangerous as the spit.
so I personally would have made the spit my initial primary worry while monitoring what the LA was doing. If the LA did the trendy B&Z My major concern would have still been the spit while playing bullfighter with the LA.
If the La started turning too.. Well then you know your in real trouble. cause now you haveto try to dodge both planes with twice as much frequency as you would then if you had one of em B&Zing.
SA is a must. Gotta have a good idea of where each plane is at all times. Typically the moment you cant find one of em. thats the one that kills ya.
Either way take whatever shots are available ethics be damned.
As Rommel told his troops
"When being shot at..SHOOT BACK"

[DREDIOCK]

Yea tough 2V1 fight on your hands.
No other real option then to fight them both.
My rule of thumb is to worry about the most dangerous plane first while trying to keep yourself in a position that makes it more difficult for the second plane to hit.
I almost always view the spit as the more dangerous plane.
Spits seem to turn ok pilots into VERY good pilots and Good pilots into superpilots.
La7 is also a VERY dangerous plane especially when comming at your 12:00 where the manuver and shot of choice for most pilots lately seems to be the boom and zoom HO deflection shot. (just a trend I noticed)
In the hands of a good pilot it turns and fights very well but still is not as dangerous as the spit.
so I personally would have made the spit my initial primary worry while monitoring what the LA was doing. If the LA did the trendy B&Z My major concern would have still been the spit while playing bullfighter with the LA.
If the La started turning too.. Well then you know your in real trouble. cause now you haveto try to dodge both planes with twice as much frequency as you would then if you had one of em B&Zing.
SA is a must. Gotta have a good idea of where each plane is at all times. Typically the moment you cant find one of em. thats the one that kills ya.
Either way take whatever shots are available ethics be damned.
As Rommel told his troops
"When being shot at..SHOOT BACK"

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Urchin
The La-7 is as fast (something like 1-2 mph slower or faster) than the F4U-4.  It accelerates better, climbs better.  As far as I know, it turns better.  

However, the F4U-4 will bleed off its speed a lot faster, and unlike most of the F4U's it actually has the acceleration to get it back, so your best bet is a hard turn (to bleed off speed and get him off of your immediate 6), followed by a barrel roll to force the overshoot.  Furthermore, you can drop your gear in the F4U to slow down even faster.  If the La-7 is flown halfway competently, you'll go from being at a direct disadvantage (1 la-7 700 yards behind you) to being at a more nuetral/disadvantage with the La-7 above you and faster.  You can work with this position to stay nuetral, and jump on the La-7 if he screws up.  If it is flown incompetently, he'll be to fast to stay behind you, but to slow to run away before you kill him.

In the MA I fly the La-5 a lot, and the La-7 a little. It turns very well between 250 and 150 mph. Get slower than that and a less careful pilot can run afoul of its lousy departure characteristics, and flaps out only postpones the inevitable snap-stall if you keep pushing it. On the other hand, the F4U-4 has far more forgiving handling at very low speeds. So, if you get the La-7 to commit to stall fight, the Corsair has the edge. But, that's a big if.

Seriously complicating this scenario was the trailing Spitfire, making a low-speed brawl a poor option.

Now, with the advantage of hindsight, here's what I would have done.

Continue running along on the deck. The longer you do this, the further the Spitfire falls behind. Getting the Spitfire out of the equation is key here. Being nearly 50 mph slower on the deck, the Spit pilot's attention span is likely too short to follow very long while the other two disappear into the distance. If he decides to quit, that problem is solved. If he doesn't quit, at least you have bought some time before you have to deal with him.

Once you have optimized you situation, I suggest you follow Urchin's suggestion. Most La-7 drivers don't even consider throttle management. They firewall it, hit WEP and keep there. Forcing an overshoot shouldn't be difficult, as long as you provide the least advantageous target by barrel rolling as many times as needed, while getting the plane dirtied up (flaps down, gear down if need be). Just don't miss your opportunity when he blows on by.

My regards,

Widewing

[beet1e]

The La7 is significantly faster than the F4U4 at 5K, turns better, climbs better(?) and yet it's the F4U4 that is perked, and not the LA7.


I think the perk cost of around 70pp is outrageous for the F4U4. It just isn't worth it IMO.

[Kweassa]

Chog should be perked at 5, 4hog at 8~10. La-7s should be perked at 4.

[Flyboy]

the F4u4 turns batter then the La7. ive checked it

La7 faster and climbs batter