Author Topic: Roll rates  (Read 7357 times)

Offline Pyro

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4020
      • http://www.hitechcreations.com
Roll rates
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2004, 04:08:43 PM »
Yeah, I would like to do a clipped wing LF IX.

Offline Mitsu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2763
      • Himitsu no blog (Mitsu's secret blog - written by Japanese)
Roll rates
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2004, 05:29:35 PM »
I wanted to see Clipped wing ver. Spit in AH1.
I hope you do it in AH2!

Offline gripen

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1914
Roll rates
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2004, 06:04:07 PM »
Pyro,
Did you got the Bf 109F test I sent couple months ago?

gripen

Offline thrila

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3190
      • The Few Squadron
Roll rates
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2004, 06:04:16 PM »
Quote
Yeah, I would like to do a clipped wing LF IX.


My hero!
"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
One-O-nine F is it's name-
F is for futile, not for fame."

Offline F4UDOA

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1731
      • http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/index.html
Roll rates
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2004, 08:03:37 PM »
Clipped wings are cool!!

Pyro,

I don't really know how you could model overbalance. That's why I asked. BTW, what is FFB?

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Roll rates
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2004, 08:26:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by F4UDOA
Clipped wings are cool!!

Pyro,

I don't really know how you could model overbalance. That's why I asked. BTW, what is FFB?


Force Feed Back joystick.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20387
Roll rates
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2004, 12:10:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
Yeah, I would like to do a clipped wing LF IX.


That would be most welcome :)

Dan/Slack
Spit XII fanatic, but a clipped LFIX/XVI would be a close second
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Citabria

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5149
Roll rates
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2004, 02:08:14 AM »
any chance for a spit VIII? pacific spits would be great :)
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20387
Roll rates
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2004, 02:29:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria
any chance for a spit VIII? pacific spits would be great :)


Better off asking for an LFIX with the pointed tail.  Then you can skin it as a MKVIII.  Performance is going to be much the same as the LFVIII that that Aussies were flying as well as the RAF in the CBI.

The old AW3 Spit IX looked great in RAAF markings, masquerading as a VIII :)

Dan/Slack
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline Angus

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10057
Roll rates
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2004, 05:52:38 AM »
Found something about the zeke:
first this:
http://yarchive.net/mil/zero.html
Then this, - a goodie, test results
http://www.tgplanes.com/Public/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=161
Caldwell's engagements were in the Spring of 1943 in a Spitfire Vb
Then this:
http://www.danford.net/shilling.htm
This is the a6m2's roll rate in old warbirds, but I guess Pyro already knows those ;)

150mph: 4.9s
200mph: 5.9s
250mph: 6.9s
300mph: 14.8s
350mph: 21.6s

A comparison from combat Ki43 and a6m: http://yarchive.net/mil/ki-43.html

However, I have not been able to find any real life roll charts anywhere, and I've been looking quite a bit. :(
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Pyro

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4020
      • http://www.hitechcreations.com
Roll rates
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2004, 09:50:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by gripen
Pyro,
Did you got the Bf 109F test I sent couple months ago?

gripen


Negative, did you send it directly to me?

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Roll rates
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2004, 02:34:05 PM »
I'm sure you have this, but what the heck:

Bf109E RAE tests:

Ailerons:
At low speeds, the ailerons control was good, response brisk. As speed increased the ailerons became too heavy but the response was good up to 200 mph. At 300 mph they became "unpleasant". Over 300 mph they became impossible. At 400 mph the stick felt like it was set in a bucket of cement. A pilot exerting all his strength could not apply more than one fifth aileron at 400 mph; that's 5 degrees up and 3 degrees down. The aileron situation at high combat speeds might be summarized in the following way:
(1) Due to the cramped cockpit a pilot could only apply about 40 pounds side force on the stick as compared to 60 pounds or more possible if he had more elbow room.
(2) Messerschmitt also penalized the pilot by designing in an unsually small stick top travel of plus or minus 4 inches, giving very poor mechanical advantage between pilot and aileron.
(3) At 400 mph with 40 pounds side force and only one fifth aileron displaced, it required 4 seconds to get into a 45 degree roll or bank. That immediately classifies the airplane as being unmaneuverable and unacceptable as a fighter.

Elevator:
This was a good control at slow speeds but became too heavy above 250 mph and at 400 mph it became so heavy that maneurverability became seriously restricted. When diving at 400 mph a pilot, pulling very hard could not pull enough "g" force to black himself out. The stick force per "g" was an excess of 20 pounds in a high speed dive. To black out, as a limit to the human factor in high speed maneuvers, would require over 100 pounds pull on the stick.
Rudder:
At low speeds the rudder was light, but sluggish in response. At 200 mph the sluggishness disappears, at 300 mph the absense of trim control in the cockpit became an acute problem. The pilot's leg force on the port rudder above 300 mph to prevent sideslip became excessive and unacceptable.
Control Harmony:
At low speed, below 250 mph, control harmony was good, only a little spoiled by the suggishness of the rudder. At higher speeds the aileron and elevator forces were so high that the word "harmony" is inappropriate.
Aerobatics
Not easy to do. Loops had to be started from about 280 mph when the elevator forces were getting unduly heavy; there was also a tendency for the wing slats to bang open the top of the loop, resulting in aileron snatch and loss of direction.
Below 250 mph the airplane would roll quickly, but there was a strong tendency for the nose to fall through the horizon in the last half of the roll and the stick had to be moved well back to keep the nose up.
Upward rolls were difficult, again because of elevator heaviness at the required starting speed. Due to this, only a moderate pull out from a dive to build up speed was possible and considerable speed was lost before the upward roll could be started.

The very bad maneuverability at high speed of the Me 109 quickly became known to the RAF pilots in 1940. On many occasions 109 pilots were led to self-destruction when on the tail of a Hurricane or Spitfire at moderate or low altitudes. The RAF pilot would do a snappy half roll and "split ess" pull out, from say 3,000 feet. In the heat and confusion of the moment the 109 pilot would follow, only to discover that he didn't have enough altitude to recover due to his heavy elevator forces and go straight into the ground or the Channel without a shot being fired.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Roll rates
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2004, 05:52:13 AM »
up
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Roll rates
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2004, 11:47:10 PM »
up
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Roll rates
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2004, 11:06:07 PM »
^
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you