Wtg Spain!

[Pepe]

Originally posted by CyranoAH
Pepe, Pepe... the fact is not that they claimed responsibility (EVEN the cadena SER said that the source of information was not credible since they had claimed the east coast blackout), the fact is that the government denied any possibility other than eta even when the investigation clues were pointing elsewhere.

 

So it is OK say that "truce" declaration is not believable on the terms of lack of credibility of the mentioned "organization" but it's not for the Government to make the same assumption about the bombing? Because, and this is a fact, when the van appeared, the Government changed his "ETA was the author" to "We think ETA was the author, but we investigating any other possiblity". And this is a fact, not an oppinion.

Don't you think that the most likely authors, on the absence of any proof, were ETA?

PD: Daniel, Daniel, no es que nos pongamos de acuerdo sobre opiniones, se trata de llegar a los hechos primero, sobre los que no deberķa haber dudas  

[Eagler]

telling how this guy planted the bombs so his party could take over the gov


you know, j like Bush/CIA allowed 911 to happen so we could take Iraq oil and charge the highest price in history for gasoline

though Jose didn't actually plant the bombs, he has become a puppet for those who did

[Ripsnort]

Yeah, the source *is* indeed questionable...sorry I was so brash in my original thread...I just hate to see any Gov't give in to terrorism, I hold no grudges against the people of Spain, mind you.

[culero]

Originally posted by StSanta
snip
I'm with the Yankees on this one. The response to a direct attack on civilians should not be appeasement - it should be direct response by all military and economical means, followed up by a campaign to remove or lessen the conditions that make recruiting so easy for fundamentalists. Dunno if the Yankees are with me with the last line there, but that's how I see it.

First allow me to take exception with the "Yankee" label, Texans tend to find it insulting

But, yes, I believe you may be assured that most of us here agree.

Reading what many foreigners post, I get the impression that there's a perception that folks here in the USA have a bias against Arabs/Muslims, because of our support of Israel. Well, its not true.

The anger you see expressed by us should be understood as directed toward those that seek to influence us by conducting and supporting terror attacks against us. One thing we do tend to be guilty of is reactionism, and we react to attacks by wanting to retaliate. I won't apologize for that.

But our support for Israel should be taken into context and understood. Its about supporting an underdog, another tendency of ours.

I believe you'd find that if the Arab/Muslim world would work to elminate their terrorist elements and demonstrate a willingness to allow Israel to survive, while at the same time demanding that all involved find some way to afford fair treatment for the Palestinians, Israel would lose its US support if it didn't cooperate - because then we'd have no reason to resent those in opposition to Israel. The Palestinians would then become the underdogs and you'd see US support for their position.

If you think about the whole situation in these terms. I believe it should make sense.

culero

[lasersailor184]

No, Israel would have to do something really atrocious to lose US support.  So that's not going to happen.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Momus--

I think the point about UN control of the Iraq situation is that it would legitimize the operation in the eyes of the Arab public. But given that Bush & co plainly don't give two hoots for Arab opinion, it kind of gives the lie to all the crying about "appeasement".

How would you explain the destrutction of the UN headquarters in Baghdad then, one of the earlier big acts of terror in the post war period?

[culero]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, Israel would have to do something really atrocious to lose US support.  So that's not going to happen.

If Israel's right to survive became acknowledged by its current opponents, and Israel received cooperation from its neighbors to stop the terror attacks against its civilian populace, then Israel would IMO be compelled to reciprocate by negotiating a fair and equitable settlement with the Palestinian population.

Under those circumstances, I believe that if Israel refused to do so, it would be seen as atrocious here in the US.

culero

[ravells]

Seems to me that post partition, the Palestinians have always been the underdogs and mistreated by the Israeli state and the rest of the Arab world.

Ravs.

[midnight Target]

I think we would all agree that a terrorist attack in the U.S. before the American elections this year would probably solidify Bush's candidacy and likely lead to another squashing... of somebody.

But, what if Al Queada offered to disband and never kill again.... in exchange for a Democratic Administration?


 ... discuss.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by midnight Target
I think we would all agree that a terrorist attack in the U.S. before the American elections this year would probably solidify Bush's candidacy and likely lead to another squashing... of somebody.

But, what if Al Queada offered to disband and never kill again.... in exchange for a Democratic Administration?


 ... discuss.

If somebody gave me a check for US $100,000,000 to vote for John Kerry I would do so in a second.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by midnight Target
I think we would all agree that a terrorist attack in the U.S. before the American elections this year would probably solidify Bush's candidacy and likely lead to another squashing... of somebody.

But, what if Al Queada offered to disband and never kill again.... in exchange for a Democratic Administration?


 ... discuss.

Al Queda does not "negotiate", nor do we. If Democratic votes were swayed to the republican vote due to terrorism, it would be because Bush has a track record of "no B.S." stance against terrorists, just the opposite of the Spain swing in the vote (which at this point appears pacifist)

[Eagler]

Originally posted by midnight Target
I think we would all agree that a terrorist attack in the U.S. before the American elections this year would probably solidify Bush's candidacy and likely lead to another squashing... of somebody.

But, what if Al Queada offered to disband and never kill again.... in exchange for a Democratic Administration?


 ... discuss.

dicuss what? another left pipe dream? maybe moveon can make a commercial saying as much LOL

[deSelys]

1. Spain's population disagreed with its Gov't about Iraq since long ago

2. Aznar was far from a sure winner of the elections before the bombing

3. Results of the elections were mostly influenced by the poor crisis management of the previous Gov't, not by the bombings themselves

4. Before the vote, there was no ultimatum from the terrorists threatening the country with other attacks if the Gov't wasn't switching to left

Spain hasn't cowered from anything. Don't expect a european country to capitulate to terrorists issuing an ultimatum. Spain, France, Germany... proved it more than once in the past: hijackings, hostages, kidnappings... Europe has had its share of that, and in my knowledge never freed a terrorist or answered any other extorsion.

Besides, the spanish people are hot tempered and proud about their country. They won't be cowering from terrorists. But they won't necessarily use the US methods and go for a target bis when the main target is still running...

[Frogm4n]

Originally posted by deSelys
1. Spain's population disagreed with its Gov't about Iraq since long ago

2. Aznar was far from a sure winner of the elections before the bombing

3. Results of the elections were mostly influenced by the poor crisis management of the previous Gov't, not by the bombings themselves

4. Before the vote, there was no ultimatum from the terrorists threatening the country with other attacks if the Gov't wasn't switching to left

Spain hasn't cowered from anything. Don't expect a european country to capitulate to terrorists issuing an ultimatum. Spain, France, Germany... proved it more than once in the past: hijackings, hostages, kidnappings... Europe has had its share of that, and in my knowledge never freed a terrorist or answered any other extorsion.

Besides, the spanish people are hot tempered and proud about their country. They won't be cowering from terrorists. But they won't necessarily use the US methods and go for a target bis when the main target is still running...

You have to remember most americans still believe saddam had something to do with 9/11. And most are still sold on the fact he was trying to supply terrorists with WMDs,

[Monk]

Spain hasn't cowered from anything. Don't expect a european country to capitulate to terrorists issuing an ultimatum. Spain, France, Germany... proved it more than once in the past: hijackings, hostages, kidnappings... Europe has had its share of that, and in my knowledge never freed a terrorist or answered any other extorsion

Na...... of course not.

http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,,1430_A_954283,00.html