how to kill ufo 51in a ??? 51drivers need not read

[Hristo]

double post, sorry

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 12-26-1999).]

[Fishu]

Ohh.. forgot to add one note, those top killer planes requires one thing, good pilot.
When good pilot jumps into P51, nothing stops him and he racks up kills like nothing.
Way different in other planes.

Bf109 wouldnt be above Fw190 unless it would have good pilot...

And of course P-51s are something what I've mostly killed in Fw190, just because I see them alot more than other planes.
P-51 modelling has some weird UFO features, like accerlating, climb rate and those 180 turns in front of you, within 500 yards.

Seems like few people didnt get the point about dweebstang and its overmodel, because they havent thought that what good pilot can do with it. (yea yea, of course good pilot does this and that in Bf109 and Fw190 blahblah.. but P-51 has far less limits)

[Ghosth]

Well If I can rack up 4 kill sorties in the Nik2j, I guess  I need to check out the uber 51.

To me the most unrealistic model that I've seen is the spit. Man I've seen them pull moves that a zeke wouldn't be able do to.

All inside 500 yards with me in a niki (that should by rights outurn everything, although spit should be close)

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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels

[-floo-]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

The SPITFIRE holds the UFO title in EVERY flight sim out there  

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-floo- fangs out
463rd Bomb Group
15th Air Force

[jmccaul]

Eliptical wings = excellent energy retention

Thats a fact of physics not flight sims  

[Fishu]

Ghosth: i dont think you do enough 4 kill sorties to keep 'kills per sortie' ratio above 4.
Also, compare of n1k2 and zeke is like compare of elephant and mouse.
N1K2 has alot more weight than zeke.

[Hangtime]

Fishu sez:
 
>>Seems like few people didnt get the point about dweebstang and its overmodel, because they havent thought that what good pilot can do with it. (yea yea, of course good pilot does this and that in Bf109 and Fw190 blahblah.. but P-51 has far less limits)<<<

(hang looks around) WHAAAT??  The P51 in yer book should be modeled as harder to fly than 109 or 190?? When it wasn't? WHAT KINDA HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE YOU WANT?  You want LW AC types that have been aknowleded as EXPERTS airplanes to be as easy to fly as a piper cub??

"well; mom bought me the guitar I wanted.. but it's too hard to learn how ta play; so the hell with it" Sound familar?

I ran up against Daniko in a FW the other night. And I barely escaped with my skin. There's somebody who LEARNED TA PLAY HIS GUITAR! He invested the time, did his homework (not squeaked.. he FLIES) and comes to the arena VERY WELL EQUIPPED to fly his plane to its complete limits. He eats Mustangs fer breakfast; hunts them almost exclusively, fears not one soul flying one and he does it flyin the "undermodeled FW" and to my knowledge has only lost ONE level engagement against a Mustang. (and is no doubt laffin his bellybutton off at yah right now)

A WELL flown 109 or 190 will tear a novice flown P51 to shreds in seconds. Only an experienced P51 driver can counter it.. and kill it effectively. And THAT is the way it was; and the way it IS.

Humph!

Hang



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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8

[Lance]

Thought I'd post a few statistics from the kill board.  These are each aircraft's kill to death ratio, ranked from best to worst.  Interpret them as you will.

190:  1.358 (13036k to 9600d)
La5:  1.344 (4551k to 3387d)
N1K:  1.305 (13946k to 10684d)
P51:  1.129 (24779k to 219541d)
Spit: 1.028 (20615k to 20061d)
109:  0.858 (5343k to 6226d)
F4u:  0.768 (3114k to 4056d)
c205: 0.722 (2126k to 2944d)

Gordo

[Fishu]

Hang: quit exaggerate this, will you?

[Fishu]

Lance: those numbers doesn't tell the truth.
There is also visible popularity of spitfire and p51, which tells clearly that many newbies are using them and dying in them alot, which makes their ratio go down..

If you see scores like ypsilon or mitsu, youll see what spitfire/p51 does, though, ypsilon and mitsu usually seems to go get those easy kills  

[CptTrips]

>Hang: quit exaggerate this, will you?

Hang: quit clouding this issue with facts, will you?

G,D,R...
Wab

[Hristo]

Hangtime, P 51D should be harder to fly at low speeds than 109. Things should get even worse if P 51D puts his nose up at those speeds. I think nobody disagrees on this.

Now I remember Pyro said that different airfoils aren't modeled yet (sorry if I missunderstood this, Pyro). That might translate into a serious P 51D disadvantage not modeled yet in AH : poor low speed high AoA handling. Most likely our 190A-8 benefits from this too, as it performs different than in the other sim.

On the other hand, 109 (the Levitating Gustav, as you refer) should excel at levitation tricks. Its wings are far more suited for climbing and low speed flight than the ones of P 51D. It is also substantially lighter than P 51D, and its engine is considerably more powerfull. It should hang there, waiting for your P 51D to drop.

[Duckwing6]

Killing P51's in the F4U only needs you to get them slow.. punch your flaps and you can turn with them forever in the F4... if he runs you're toast thou  

What i don't quite get how folks can rack up such a high kill number with the P51 and not with the F4U even thou they have the same armament and ammo load...

P51 experten: what convergenze do you use ?
And HOW THE HECK do you actually HIT your targets ?  

Phil "SC-Duckwing6"

[TT]

Ask yourself this. When was the last time you saw a P51 try to avoid an HO. Unless your in a p51 yourself, or maby a spit. I cant remember ever seeing a UFO-D pilot try to avoid an HO with me.

[Hristo]

TT, one of the truest statements I have seen about the Pony  

Vast majority of them goes HO HO HO (Santa time ?)

However, I don't think it is wrong. P 51's guns have some qualities other guns dont have. Here's my opinion:

Real life :

1. range - far greater effective range (this is closely related to 2. and 3., as well as round type)
2. trajectory - superior to all other guns
3. dispersion - Hog beats P 51 here, but only slightly
4. dense fire - even if you miss with first rounds, you will surely connect by walking the rounds in
5. gun happiness - 6 .50 cals produce greatest fireworks of tracers, all bright and shiny; not a factor to be discounted  


AH:

1. lag - even if you are in 4 20mm 190, you won't survive HO, it takes time for the damage packet being sent to the opponent; usually you both die - he gets mortally wounded by few cannon shells, while your plane sucked hundreds of .50 cals

2. range indicators - well, helps both jousters


So, I'd avoid any HO with P 51D, unless it is my last option or I need to get out fast. Then it might be wise to roll 90 degrees to his wings, because .50 cals hit fusleage at convergence point only, while wings suffer at all other ranges. You just might get lucky and his bullets paint an X around you, while you hit with nose guns of 109.

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 12-27-1999).]