Author Topic: No WMD Search focus on "Intent"  (Read 1453 times)

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2004, 03:52:00 AM »
So the problem you have is with Bush and not the war at all. Don't worry .. it's an election year. The worst that could happen is you being miserable about whoever the citizens of the U.S. elect as their leader for the next four years. And the best case scenario is you get to complain about whoever replaces him.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2004, 03:57:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
The right course of action would have been Bush stating the real reason for the war... And not blaming the war on the WMD BS.


But concern about WMD was one of the reasons and the key reason. If Saddam was not suspected of violating his GW1 cease-fire agreements there would have been no issue with him thougout the 1990s and 2000s and hence no sanctions, no overfly zones and daily bombing, no endless WMD enspections and no 2003 war.

And even the vaunted UN thought there was sufficient cause to doubt Saddam's WMD sincerity just up to the war in 2003.

What do you think was the real reason for the Iraq war?

Offline Gixer

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« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2004, 04:04:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Gixer, how many Iraqi's would Saddam have killed if we hadn't invaded?  Go ahead, speculate.  :)



I can't speculate on that any more then you can on how many Iraqi's will be killed as the country moves from Anarchy to Democracy and then a new democratic leader. Who will most likely end up being a Shiite Cleric with ties to Iran. (July 1st is awful close)

Of course this is assuming that handover date isn't missed and that the country dosn't just collapse into civil war.

Would you care to speculate?



...-Gixer

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2004, 04:09:30 AM »
Quote
So the problem you have is with Bush and not the war at all.


Yes. And ive been saying this since day one....

Heres a list of my concern for the Iraq war... to simplify things.

1. Bush selling the war on false grounds.

2. The American citizens swallowing his lies without hesitation.

3. The US-stance "Youre either with us or against us", no room for any middle ground...

4. That 70% of the US-Citizens beliving the Iraq war was about 9/11

Quote
What do you think was the real reason for the Iraq war?


Not sure. Ask your leader.
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Offline Steve

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« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2004, 04:35:53 AM »
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Would you care to speculate?



Sure, conservative estimates that over 300,000 people were murdered by Saddam's regime in the 24 years it was in power.

That's 12500 or so people killed every year.

How many more years would this guy have been in power?

Some simple math here.


Oh, let's not forget all the people he had tortured, imprisoned, maimed, and raped.

The loss of life in the war is trivial when compared to the lives saved by ending his reign of tyranny.
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Offline Gixer

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« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2004, 05:45:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Sure, conservative estimates that over 300,000 people were murdered by Saddam's regime in the 24 years it was in power.

That's 12500 or so people killed every year.

How many more years would this guy have been in power?

Some simple math here.


Oh, let's not forget all the people he had tortured, imprisoned, maimed, and raped.

The loss of life in the war is trivial when compared to the lives saved by ending his reign of tyranny.



Simple Math, So how many of those deaths, torture and maimed happend while the US was supporting Saddam through out the 80's?

I guess it's only recently the US has been concerned about the Iraqi civilian population.



...-Gixer

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2004, 07:55:39 AM »
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Originally posted by Maniac
Yes. And ive been saying this since day one....

Heres a list of my concern for the Iraq war... to simplify things.

1. Bush selling the war on false grounds.

2. The American citizens swallowing his lies without hesitation.

3. The US-stance "Youre either with us or against us", no room for any middle ground...

4. That 70% of the US-Citizens beliving the Iraq war was about 9/11


All of that centers on the war. Seems you DO actually have a problem with both then. Now that it's perfectly clear that you consider the POTUS an evil liar and the U.S. public gullible dupes, you've been as blunt about it as you can be. Anything else would be redundant but to be expected.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2004, 07:56:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
Simple Math, So how many of those deaths, torture and maimed happend while the US was supporting Saddam through out the 80's?

I guess it's only recently the US has been concerned about the Iraqi civilian population.

...-Gixer


So the only real problem you have with it all is that the war came too late.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2004, 07:59:14 AM »
500 dead?  hell, the sadman and his sons tortured more than that on a long weekend of partying.

everyone is better off except the soldiers and we lose more than that in the same amount of time to war game exercises and normal attrition.

Now, if you just want to say that the sadman was not working toward more and grander evil... that is another thing... I believe the little dickens was.

So... in summary... everything worked out fine.   and... you probly won't get to vote anyway if you are a euro.

so far as the U.N.   Hey... they tell us how big a threat someone is and say they are in violation but then sit on their hands...  you can keep your impotent U.N.  

lazs

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2004, 08:08:19 AM »
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All of that centers on the war. Seems you DO actually have a problem with both then. Now that it's perfectly clear that you consider the POTUS an evil liar and the U.S. public gullible dupes, you've been as blunt about it as you can be. Anything else would be redundant but to be expected.


All of that does not center on the war. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion because i certainly dont see it.
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Offline SLO

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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2004, 08:16:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
I can't speculate on that any more then you can on how many Iraqi's will be killed as the country moves from Anarchy to Democracy and then a new democratic leader. Who will most likely end up being a Shiite Cleric with ties to Iran. (July 1st is awful close)

Of course this is assuming that handover date isn't missed and that the country dosn't just collapse into civil war.

Would you care to speculate?



...-Gixer


yep.....those close ties to Iran are gonna be trouble in the future.

and now Iran has Nuke Factories.....

well the Jew has em....why not the Muslem's

lets see the good ol' U S of A invade Iran cause it has a tyrant Leader who imprisons and tortures its population AND it does have WMD's.....

WTG on giving more shiites there freedom to express there faith in ALLA.....just more fanatics to deal with.....no problem

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2004, 08:21:47 AM »
maniac said..."Yes. And ive been saying this since day one....

Heres a list of my concern for the Iraq war... to simplify things.

1. Bush selling the war on false grounds.

2. The American citizens swallowing his lies without hesitation.

3. The US-stance "Youre either with us or against us", no room for any middle ground...

4. That 70% of the US-Citizens beliving the Iraq war was about 9/11 "

1.  if he sold it on false grounds then the U.N. and everyone else was just as much wrong.

2.   I don't think you give the American people enough credit..  We been wanting to get the sadman for a long time and most Americans feel that the value of a good example can't be overstated...  beats watching euros sit on their hands till they creat some bosnia debacle or any of the endless ones they have created in the past...  

3.   Yep... Americans feel that you are with us or against us.  I see nothing wrong withn that.   I don't see any other country that I would want to take advise from right now.

4.  It was about 9/11  and it still is.   As I said... the value of a god example can't be overstated.   I would even go so far as to say more than one terrorist or terrorist sympathizer has met his maker since 9/11... more will follow no doubt.    In any case...  the sadman ain't gonna help anyone.

lazs

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2004, 08:24:01 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/03/30/iraq.wmd.duelfer/index.html

New inspector won't rule out finding Iraqi WMD[/b]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In prepared testimony, the CIA's new chief Iraq weapons inspector said he does not rule out finding weapons of mass destruction, adding "we regularly receive reports, some quite intriguing and credible, about concealed caches" of weapons.
Charles Duelfer said, however, that former Iraqi senior officials -- now prisoners of U.S. forces -- are not talking.
"Over the past 10 months, we have learned that [deposed Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's] most senior and trusted officials can hold their tongues," Duelfer said.
"We know from high-level briefings that Saddam conveyed his most sensitive messages to particular individuals orally," he said. "Moreover, there were explicit instructions not to repeat such conversations."
Saddam's government collapsed April 9, 2003, when U.S. troops entered Baghdad. U.S. forces captured the fugitive leader in December near his ancestral homeland of Tikrit.
U.S.-led forces had invaded Iraq a month earlier after the Bush administration argued that Iraq was concealing stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, a nuclear weapons program and long-range missiles in violation of U.N. resolutions.
No stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction have been found despite an intensive search.
Critics have accused the administration of overstating the threat Iraq posed in order to go to war.
Duelfer is testifying Tuesday behind closed doors before the Senate Armed Services and Intelligence committees. His comments contrast with those of his predecessor, David Kay, who has said he does not expect that any weapons of mass destruction will be found in Iraq.
In prepared testimony, Duelfer said fear of retribution is still a significant stumbling block as the Iraq Survey Group he heads seeks information from Iraqi managers, scientists and engineers.
"Many perceive a grave risk in speaking with us. On one hand, there is a fear of prosecution or arrest. On the other, there is a fear [that] former regime supporters will exact retribution. This is, in part, why we do not yet fully understand the central issue of regime intentions," Duelfer said.
Duelfer, who is a special adviser to CIA Director George Tenet, said he is providing only a status report -- not a preliminary assessment of findings, which will come later.
Like Kay, Duelfer said that the regime was in "clear" violation of several U.N. resolutions banning WMD programs in Iraq, including the ban on certain biological research and the ban on deploying missiles or unmanned aerial vehicles with a range of more than 93 miles (150 kilometers).

Offline gofaster

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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2004, 08:30:23 AM »
I have no doubt that Iraq will succumb to civil war after the US pull-out unless one side completely decimates the other side.  I predict either long and expensive police crack-downs or widespread genocide in Malamah and Fallujah.
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The latest violence came two days after Carina Perelli, the head of a U.N. electoral team, said better security is vital if Iraq wants to hold elections by a Jan. 31 deadline. The polls are scheduled to follow a June 30 transfer of sovereignty to an Iraqi government.

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2004, 08:30:31 AM »
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4. It was about 9/11 and it still is. As I said... the value of a god example can't be overstated. I would even go so far as to say more than one terrorist or terrorist sympathizer has met his maker since 9/11... more will follow no doubt. In any case... the sadman ain't gonna help anyone.


I really cant understand this... When all of the Terrorists from 9/11 were Saudi´s... I do understand the "a good example part" but hey, you picked the wrong ones to make an example off...
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