... in defense of the Mustang.....

[Swager]

K/D 0.7!  Way below average!  

Holy smokes!  I suck at this sim!!  All that time I thought I was having fun, I was actually sucking!!  Well HT is gona hear about this!    

I don't believe the K/D ratio should be a measurement of how good a pilot is.  Sure the K/D is somewhere on the scale, but to bring up someone's K/D in an attempt to determine the quality of the pilot can be very misleading.  

I believe my K/D is around 0.7.  If this makes people believe I am a below average pilot, then so be it.  Come on down to treetop and bring it on baby, because I am an easy kill.  You may shoot me down, but you're gona have one hell of a fight on your hands doing it!!


To the tune of Walker: Texas Ranger:

"When your high or low in Knightland look behind you;

Cause that's where Swager, in his Spit, is gona be"

Damn!  Im in the wrong business!        


PS  Hangtime!  That was a great post!!!  
"When your dead,  your dead!  So shaddup!!"

Ahh!  Ya crack me up!!  

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Damn Ghostrider!  This bogey is all over me!!

[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 12-28-1999).]

[Vermillion]

Ah but Mr. Ed, as an ex-military man, you yourself should know that there is quite a difference between "maximum" range and "effective" range.

------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires "

[jedi]

Ah, another morning spent channel-surfing the flame wars here at AGW...

What's that?  This isn't AGW???  The hell you say!  It looks like a duck, and it smells like a...

Oh.  Sure enough.  NOT AGW.  I don't get out enough  

Let me just get this straight tho.  You guys ARE actually arguing about a FREE simulator which doesn't have its final flight models in place yet, right?  

Lucky for Pyro he has all you guys to explain to him what the proper performance parameters for all these planes are.  Lord knows he probably doesn't have much in the way of accurate data  

OK, back to your regularly scheduled pilot-griping.  Heck, I don't even know which UBB I'm at anyway!  (And soon, neither will you!)

Sure wish that durn Macchi wasn't so undermodelled tho.  It shore do got a purty mouth  

--jedi

[Curly]

 "Let me just get this straight tho. You guys ARE actually arguing about a FREE simulator which doesn't have its final flight models in place yet, right?"

 Here.

 [curly passes a box of Depends to Jedi]

 Laugh your bellybutton off like I've been.

[This message has been edited by Curly (edited 12-28-1999).]

[Mr.ED]

Verm, dang tootin' I know.

Effective range is where you shot him down from.
Max range is where he shoulda gone down from :-)

All military weapons are rated for effective, max effective and max ranges.
Some are rated, shoulder fired, stationary mounted, or airframe mounted.
IE:
The M-60 belt feed MG has a max range of 4400 yards
Its Max effective range, fixed mounted is 1800-2200 yards
It effective killing range is 1200-1800 yards.
Better be a dang good shot, hangin off the side of a huey, 400-600 yards if you were lucky!

Mr.ED
Pony Driver
Knight

[Dingy]

EXCEPTIONAL post Hang!  <S>

Couldn't have said it better!

-Ding

[Ice]

Well.......

I just finished reading this entire thread at my office and I'm so exhausted I think I'm just going to go home.

I cant believe anyone would complain about any plane in any of the flight sims.

Just learn how to fly whats offered and enjoy yourself I could have an absurd K/D if that was of the utmost importance, but like most, my mood changes from time to time and so does my flying style.

We all know each plane has its strengths and weaknesses and those who best master the knowledge of both will enjoy the greatest success....so....lighten up and fly nice and straight so I can killya

Cyas Up!
Ice

P.S. Hang......make sure and give me credit in all future posts for your improved gunnery due to the gunsight I gave ya

[Dingy]

 

On the other hand, TOWD and I have had many many encounters, and I think he has true talent; can fly that 109 and FW very well.. he gripes all the time too;

<ears perk-up, mouth begins to open>

NAH!  Leave sleeping dogs lie!  Nice fite TOWD  

-Ding

[Dingy]

 

investigating the turning discussion, i have personnally tested the 51, going a little over 400kts i quickly lowered a notch of flaps, rolled wings 90 degrees and pulled back. i instantly blacked out, held the turn for a while, and released.

Shower, forgive me if Im missing something here but you say you "..held the turn for a 'while'".  How are you solving for G without timing how long it took you to turn 200 degrees?  The G load is the angular accelleration requires a time factor to calculate the accelleration right?  The only other way you can do that is by knowing the length of the arc you travelled.  

Just curious.

-Ding

[Hangtime]

Humble!! great post! I totally agree.. it's the pilot more than the plane.. and this is the first AC combat sim that gives the pilot the real challenge. Thank you sir; fer your kind words. As for the gunnery.. lord knows; theres probably no worse shot in this sim than me. I can solve the angles problems pretty well.. gettin saddled up is the least of my worries. Gettin a reasonable hit percentage is my biggest weakness.. can't say how many hundreds of times I've been in JUST the right spot; squeezed the tit.. and missed clean.  

There's a neat solution to the gunnery given to me by ICE I'll post for yah.. It helped me some; but the majority of my problems with gunnery relate to genetics. More on the miracle gunsight later in the post.

Mr ED!! salute ta u sir!! When the knights come knockin I figure yer in there somewhere; so I go fer the Stangs first...   Awsome tech data on the .50's. Thank you for the education!

Way back when the men were still men and even HT's uber-sheep were nervous I watched a firepower demo while I was a lad getting my comeupance at the hands of various drill instructors. Awestruck I was and remain by the rushing ROAR of that single turrent mounted .50 as it cut a half-track to shreds with just one 5 second burst.. from 300 yards; longer ranges than I shoot from here with 6 of em. And then the the sudden silence; punctuated by that cheerful jingle of the brass casings dribbiling down.. gives me chills even now; thirty years later. Always felt the .50's as modeled here were as dotsie put it.. "spud guns"; and I'll also speculate that that old half-track had more armor than a 109.   Thanks fer the confirmation.  

Swager.. u don't suck at this sim.. just check the bullet riddled carcass of the guy yah just shot down for confirmation; NOT the scorecard. And score-cards are better at keepin track of baseball players than pilots that like ta furball. Are yah havin fun??? Good!!.. means yah ain't checked the score lately.   Soon as yah let that damn score card run yer game the fun goes away. Next thing you know, yah find yerself unable to resist whining in the text buffer... DON'T DO IT MAN! Resist the darkside! Let the score-dweebs get assimilated.

Fishu.. hey just wonderin.. you French-Canadian?? Oh.. and yah fergot ta ridicule my incessant and improper use of semi-colins. (nyyyyahhh nyah!)

ROFL Jedi!!.. hey; sure beats the hell outta Oprah don't it??  

Curly!! Yah know.. I can help, doode! I get Depends wholesale now.. part of my AARP package.  

Highya Dingy! thanks fer the kind words. I truly enjoy watchin yah fly that 190 of yours...  between you and me we get em commin and goin.   When the 190 and P51 wade in to a furball together "Nobody gets out alive" seems ta be the order of the day. I love it when yah drag UP.  

Finally .. ICE!! My mentor; my giver of the BEST DAMN GUNSIGHT ever mounted on the dash of my plane... THANK YOU. I'm not worthy...  yes; the sight has greatly improved my accuracy.. but man cannot kill by spud guns alone; so I often have to revert to the trick of landing a few hits and then flyin the poor sod into the ground ta get the kill. Oh well...    

For the good news to all you out there.. the gunsight ICE gave me is a simple 5 pixel cross in the center of the sight. At game resolutions this translates into a bright dot dead center in the gunsight; without any rings; crosshairs or other chic parphenalia. Defection shooting improved too.. and for the life of me.. sans gizmos and all.. I don't know why. But it works. Just call up any ol gunsight from the sim into a graphics editor and erase all the eye-teasing clutter; pop in a 5 pixel cross like this; + and yer in buisness. I'll make you all the same offer he made me.. if yah don't like it; I'll buy it back for the same price you paid.   If yah don't have a graphics editor or all this seems too tedious or technical; just email me (address in my profile here, use subject GUNSIGHT so I'll open it and read it  ) and I'll send yah mine. Send your thanks to ICE.. Thank U ICE! Salute, Mighty 13th!

Keep checkin yer high six gents... yah never know when the score-hounds are gonna show...  

Hang

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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8

[Extreme]

Can you guys keep your posts to 2 or 3 lines at a time?  It takes too long to read otherwise  ...

Ex.

[Mr.ED]

One last post then,I have to get back to flyin' been spending hours in the BB, and not flyin' (not good)
I recieved a signed copy of Pappy Boyinton's book Baa Baa Black Sheep for Christmas. (yes I know he has pasted, my mother found it in a collectors bookstore in Seattle, where she and Pappy both are from)

For all you Corsair lovers (=DOA=) and others. I read this book in 2 days, good stuff in there! The first half was Flying Tiger days, the middle 1/4 was PTO and the last 1/4 was the 2 years he was a "Special Prisoner"

From page 152

" As I turned into his pal, I hade a head-on run with him. Black puffs came slowly from his 20mm cannons. His tracers were dropping way under my Corsair. I could see my tracers going all around this little zero. When I got close enough to him. I could see rips in the bottom of his fuselage as I ducked underneath him on my pass by. The little plane nosed down slowly, smoking, and crashed with a splash a couple of seconds later, without burning or flaming."
The point of this that (a) the 50s had more range (b) after the zero got to close he didn't fire again because the cannon shells have to spin a specified distance to arm, so he could fly underneath the plane, the zero's MGs being on top. (c) unlike some of the sims out there, (not AH because the guns aren't modeled yet) he didn't have to spay & pray 1/4 of his ammo away trying to know a plane of of the sky.
In fact if you ever fly AW3 where it takes 1/4 to 1/2 your ammo to kill a bomber. The WWII Ponys could engage a flock of bombers, shot some of them down, straif on the way home and still have some round left.

I'm getting off this dang 50 cal/cannon soapbox and climbing into my pony. Sorry for clogging up the BB and this Pony thread with my gun modeling ramblings.
There are some darn good posts in here, thanks guys for the info and your ear.

Mr.ED
Pony Driver
Knight  

[juzz]

"Black puffs came slowly from his 20mm cannons. His tracers were dropping way under my Corsair."
Shows that the slow (mv and rof) Type 99 20mm cannon have poor ballistics, making it harder to hit with, not that the .50 has more range.
"The little plane nosed down slowly, smoking, and crashed with a splash a couple of seconds later, without burning or flaming."
The pilot was probably dead/wounded - that's why he stopped shooting, not because he thought the cannon shells wouldn't arm at close range.

[Duckwing6]

yep juzz   i guess NOBODY would release the trigger in such a situation .. i mean a bird can kill a pilot why not an unarmed cannon slug.

[Mr.ED]

"Shows that the slow (mv and rof) Type 99 20mm cannon have poor ballistics, making it
harder to hit with, not that the .50 has more range."

Pappy had already fired, his 50s had hit home, and yes the pilot was most like dead.
and the 20mms were out of range.

Mr.Ed
Pony Driver
Knight