Author Topic: Why are we supporting Israel?  (Read 2600 times)

Offline bozon

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2004, 11:26:09 AM »
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So if Judaism is not a religion, what is it? A state of mind?

It's the same name for a number of things, but you pretty much got it muckmaw. And I'm not kidding.

Bozon
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Offline bozon

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2004, 11:34:04 AM »
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Believe that the sescond coming of Christ cannot happen until Armegeddon which is supposed to start in Israel.

It already happened in Israel.
"Armegeddon" is a deformation of the Hebrew "Har Megido" or in english "Megido mountain".
It's a hill a little west of Jenin (inside 1967 border) inwhich a great battle was fought against the Romans during the great revult. Many people belived that this comming battle is the "light vs. darkness" battle that is before the comming of the Messiah.
Guess what? they "light" side lost and the Messiah missed the party.

Some nice ruins there today.

Bozon
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline muckmaw

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2004, 11:38:26 AM »
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Originally posted by bozon
It already happened in Israel.
"Armegeddon" is a deformation of the Hebrew "Har Megido" or in english "Megido mountain".
It's a hill a little west of Jenin (inside 1967 border) inwhich a great battle was fought against the Romans during the great revult. Many people belived that this comming battle is the "light vs. darkness" battle that is before the comming of the Messiah.
Guess what? they "light" side lost and the Messiah missed the party.

Some nice ruins there today.

Bozon


Very interesting post. Thanks.

Offline Capt. Pork

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2004, 11:57:07 AM »
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Originally posted by muckmaw
That means, import Israeli's people, like we did with the German Scientists after WWII. (Gunther Wendt and company.)

So if Judaism is not a religion, what is it? A state of mind?


We, at least most of those that I know, consider ourselves a bloodline. Simply put, in deference to you, a race. We share attributes and problems that are common within races, including predispositions to certain diseases as well as physical characteristics.


Many have contested this, as I'm sure you will, and thus you solidify your inability to understand the mindset of the Jewish people.

You will not 'import' people that have no reason or willingness to leave the nation they've built.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2004, 12:00:08 PM by Capt. Pork »

Offline gofaster

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2004, 12:34:13 PM »
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Originally posted by bozon
It already happened in Israel.
"Armegeddon" is a deformation of the Hebrew "Har Megido" or in english "Megido mountain".
It's a hill a little west of Jenin (inside 1967 border) inwhich a great battle was fought against the Romans during the great revult. Many people belived that this comming battle is the "light vs. darkness" battle that is before the comming of the Messiah.
Guess what? they "light" side lost and the Messiah missed the party.

Some nice ruins there today.

Bozon


I did not know that.  Intriguing.  Thanks for the info!

Offline StabbyTheIcePic

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2004, 12:36:53 PM »
They buy lots of multimillion dollar jets from us. And the far christian right actually believe that if the kingdom of iseral extends to the river jordan that christ will return.

Offline muckmaw

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2004, 12:41:28 PM »
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
We, at least most of those that I know, consider ourselves a bloodline. Simply put, in deference to you, a race. We share attributes and problems that are common within races, including predispositions to certain diseases as well as physical characteristics.


Many have contested this, as I'm sure you will, and thus you solidify your inability to understand the mindset of the Jewish people.

You will not 'import' people that have no reason or willingness to leave the nation they've built.


Are'nt we quick to judge others.

You seem pretty certain of my mindset. Maybe you should worry less about my preconceived notions and more about your own.

Of course, by importing the best and the brightest, I meant enslaving them and transporting them to the united states in shackles.

Lighten up.

Offline Capt. Pork

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2004, 12:44:45 PM »
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
They buy lots of multimillion dollar jets from us. And the far christian right actually believe that if the kingdom of iseral extends to the river jordan that christ will return.


Beautiful insight. You forgot, however, to mention that Santa Claus and Britney Spears have a Summer home together at Eilat, overlooking the Red Sea.

Offline culero

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2004, 12:46:56 PM »
Yo, muck.

Sometimes it isn't what you get out of a deed, but whether or not its simply the right thing to do.

We were the first to recognize Israel as a state. We helped legitimize their existence. Question - at the time, was that the right thing to do?

Since then, the entire Arab world has sworn to wipe the Israelis out and tried to several times. If we were right at first, wasn't lending the Israelis a hand when they needed it against long odds also right?

As to now, well, I can understand your doubts. I'm just pointing out how we got started in our relationship.

Now, another question for you: do you turn your back on a friend? Even if you think he's ****ing up in certain ways? Or do you continue your friendship, while trying to get him to mend his ways?

OK, loaded multiple question, forgive me ;)

culero
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Offline Curval

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2004, 12:50:29 PM »
Many US servicemen were first hand witnesses to the atrocities committed by the Nazis against the Jewish people.

I'm sure that had the effect of generating lots of support after the Second World War.
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Offline Capt. Pork

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2004, 01:02:58 PM »
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Are'nt we quick to judge others.

You seem pretty certain of my mindset. Maybe you should worry less about my preconceived notions and more about your own.

Of course, by importing the best and the brightest, I meant enslaving them and transporting them to the united states in shackles.

Lighten up.


Why import them at all when they have a nation of their own, that they have cultivated to levels unparalelled in the region, complete with Universities, institutes and research facilities that either match or surpass those found anywhere else?

You asked why support Israel, so I gave that as part of an answer.

You asked what Judiasm was if it wasn't a religion, and offered 'mindset' as a reply--to me that either implies ignorance or obstinance in the face of a common belief.

Perhaps you were playing devil's advocate, but I have no way of knowing.

As for lightening up, sorry man, but it just won't happen. I spent the earlier part of my life living outside of the US, behind the Iron curtain, where being a Jew isn't quite as easy(lightly put). I have sympathy for my fellow Jews overseas and simply cannot understand how the option of turning our collective backs on that race, again, can even enter into conversation.

You may have no love for the Israelis based on what you see in the news and what you hear spewed by European popular opinion but to gain your own perspective, I invite you to go see the nation for yourself. A few weeks there, seeing with your own eyes, should answer the question that started this thread.

Offline muckmaw

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2004, 01:04:48 PM »
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Originally posted by culero
Yo, muck.

Sometimes it isn't what you get out of a deed, but whether or not its simply the right thing to do.

We were the first to recognize Israel as a state. We helped legitimize their existence. Question - at the time, was that the right thing to do?

Since then, the entire Arab world has sworn to wipe the Israelis out and tried to several times. If we were right at first, wasn't lending the Israelis a hand when they needed it against long odds also right?

As to now, well, I can understand your doubts. I'm just pointing out how we got started in our relationship.

Now, another question for you: do you turn your back on a friend? Even if you think he's ****ing up in certain ways? Or do you continue your friendship, while trying to get him to mend his ways?

OK, loaded multiple question, forgive me ;)

culero


I'm not baiting you here, Culero, but I'm trying to understand the situation.

What happened to the people that lived in Israel before it was formed? These are the Palestinians, correct? I heavily disagree with their murderous attacks, but if someone set up shop on my front lawn and told me it was their home now, I'd be pretty pissed off too.

Now, I must be oversimplifying the situation but that sounds like the gist of it.

If my friend was infringing on someone else's property, I would advise him to back off. Would I support if he coninuted to do something I thought was wrong and Illegal? Probably not.

Now, I'm not taking sides here, but that's the crux of the problem, is'nt it? Who has the right to the land called Israel?

Offline muckmaw

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2004, 01:08:17 PM »
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
Why import them at all when they have a nation of their own, that they have cultivated to levels unparalelled in the region, complete with Universities, institutes and research facilities that either match or surpass those found anywhere else?

You asked why support Israel, so I gave that as part of an answer.

You asked what Judiasm was if it wasn't a religion, and offered 'mindset' as a reply--to me that either implies ignorance or obstinance in the face of a common belief.

Perhaps you were playing devil's advocate, but I have no way of knowing.

As for lightening up, sorry man, but it just won't happen. I spent the earlier part of my life living outside of the US, behind the Iron curtain, where being a Jew isn't quite as easy(lightly put). I have sympathy for my fellow Jews overseas and simply cannot understand how the option of turning our collective backs on that race, again, can even enter into conversation.

You may have no love for the Israelis based on what you see in the news and what you hear spewed by European popular opinion but to gain your own perspective, I invite you to go see the nation for yourself. A few weeks there, seeing with your own eyes, should answer the question that started this thread.


Ignorance would describe my understand of the country and it's poeple at this time. The main reason I started this thread was to learn.

As for traveling to Israel, I would very much like to do that some day. Though I'm not Jewish, I do love history and there are few if any places more rich in history. Unfortunately, I am under the impression that the middle east is not the safest place in the world for an American civilain to be right now.

Offline Capt. Pork

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2004, 01:09:24 PM »
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Originally posted by muckmaw
but that's the crux of the problem, is'nt it? Who has the right to the land called Israel?


So if they allocated land for the Palestinians you would support continued aid to Israel?

Offline muckmaw

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Why are we supporting Israel?
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2004, 01:10:12 PM »
Did'nt they do that already?

Anyone got a source of where I can read up about this situation on the web? Preferably, and unbiased source?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2004, 01:14:04 PM by muckmaw »