Author Topic: Hmm, this gun study in Australia may differ from Vulcans opinion (Read 1178 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #30 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:34:39 AM »

angus... you, nor anyone else including the police can gurantee that I will never need to defend myself.

In the states it is proven that when more citizens of a state have concealed carry permits the crime rate goes down. It is a fact that people who get concealed carry permits are the least likely group to commit crimes.. It is a fact that poeple are attacked and killed or women raped every day in the U.S. by criminals who allmost allways depend on their numbers or strength or a knife or club. What would you suggest would be a good method to defend against them?

with luck... I will never need a firearm again to defend myself or others. Most police never use theirs. but... it costs me and my fellow citizens nothing for me to have one and it seems to lower crime.

lazs

Angus · « **Reply #31 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:40:13 AM »

So, would a lever operated 22 magnum do, or do you HAVE to have a handgun?
As for your in-state comparison, it turns the other way when comparing the US with other countries.

lazs2 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 20, 2004, 09:06:40 AM »

how do you conceal a lever action 22 magnum? I have a Winchester lever action 22 magnum and it would be about the last gun I own that I would choose to defend myself. certainly one of the last to go out in public with. A handgun can be concealed and not offrend the faint of heart nor antagonize people... at the same time... the fact that many people may be carrying a concealed firearm deters the bad guys from attacking the weak. If they only had to avoid 22mag lever gun wielders... it would sorta defeat the purpose no?

I am consistent in my comparissons of states just as I am of countries... when you have a whitebread state or country with little or no outside interaction or diversity and rural atmosphere... you have low crime... the crime remains low whether the rate of firearms ownership is low or high.

The real point is. What gives anyone the right to take away someones right to defend themselves? Aren't you judging them guilty of a crime (shooting) that they have not commited? why are you afraid of law abiding citizens having firearms?

lazs

Angus · « **Reply #33 on:** April 20, 2004, 09:18:25 AM »

Defending your home,you don't really need a conceilable weapon,right?
And why would you wanna be going out in public with a gun for? Oh, forgot that you've got all the public armed to its teeth with handguns...
A hard way to go back from there, but possible to keep out of that situation in the first place.
Not all countires with a lot lower crime rate than the US are Rural or "white". Compare the US with London for instance. The US mounts twice the rates of people in jail, and many times the capital crime rate (murder, rape and armed robbery),despite the good cause of a defensive weapon.
Hell, I've been around so many Euro cities at night, somewhere, and alone in many occasions. It never crossed my mind that I'd need a gun,but I did have to excersize my sprint a couple of times, hehe.

lazs2 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 20, 2004, 09:56:23 AM »

no angus... again, you miss the point. I am not afraid that I will run into criminals with guns... not too much anyway but.. I could be attacked with a club or a knife or just by several thugs or... by a druggie or someone who simply thinks they are strong enough to take from me and mine or harm me and mine. They will most likely not be armed with a firearm since the penalties are increased for crime with firearms (as it should be) .

I am not interested in testing my fighting prowess or luck. In such serious social matters I will settle for nothing less than the best advantage I can get.

Allmost all of the shootings that you read about in the U.S. are one worthless criminal killing another or an inocent bystander that lives in the slum where the shooting took place.

lazs

Angus · « **Reply #35 on:** April 20, 2004, 10:12:12 AM »

Maybe about time to stop selling guns to the baddies

vorticon · « **Reply #36 on:** April 20, 2004, 10:36:26 AM »

Quote

The traditions of shooting will be lost and the city girls will win.

as i remember most gun crimes are done by inner city street gangs...

which traditions would those be? the ones that made clint eastwood a ****load of money doing movies on?

StabbyTheIcePic · « **Reply #37 on:** April 20, 2004, 10:43:49 AM »

You are a scared scared little man laz.

But on to the topic. If the people of australia vote for lawmakers that enforce the gun laws and write new ones so be it. It is a democracy. America will never have anything so overt, nor should it.

Vulcan · « **Reply #38 on:** April 20, 2004, 03:04:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
what happens in iceland or nz has no relevance at all to the U.S. situation.

Funny thats what I keep saying all along as well.

lazs2 · « **Reply #39 on:** April 20, 2004, 04:22:04 PM »

Not sure if anyone would define me as either "scared" or "little" maybe tho..

I do however, know enough to not bring an icepick to a gunfight..

and.. so far as selling guns to the bad guys.. no... probly not a great idea. Good idea tho is to make harsher mandatory penalties for crimes commited with firearms.

lazs

Angus · « **Reply #40 on:** April 20, 2004, 06:30:13 PM »

maybe not getting into a gunfight?

Gixer · « **Reply #41 on:** April 20, 2004, 07:51:47 PM »

Not sure about you guys but when I see a statement like "I do however, know enough to not bring an icepick to a gunfight"

One gets the feeling that this is more about trying to show ones masculinity then it is about gun laws and gun ownership.

~~...-Gixer~~

Angus · « **Reply #42 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:51:25 PM »

True Gixer.
Anyway, we're off-rated because we don't come from big urban areas, and European urban areas don't count either.
Still puzzles me, - how could a big urban area such as London or Berlin benefit from more liberal gun ownership? Would more handguns cut down the capital crime rate?

Vulcan · « **Reply #43 on:** April 20, 2004, 09:24:14 PM »

The problem is that those in the pro- and anti- gun groups often refer to 'overseas' studies in their arguments. Like all statistics you can make those studies read however you want. And so the arguments often deteriorate into sillyness about what other people should do.

I don't argue for gun laws such as those we have in NZ being imposed in the USA. IMHO its far too late for that. The US has gone beyond the point of no return. Theres no way the US can dig itself out of the mess its in with guns (and yes Lazs it is a mess), and the anti-gun lobbyists should wake up and realize this.

But I do take issue with people (especially from the US) mocking gun laws in other countries as absurd and 'a removal of rights and freedom'. This is the argument of the ignorant, particularly those ignorant in the pleasure of walking the streets not having to worry about being shot or having to defend yourself with 'more firepower'.

Angus · « **Reply #44 on:** April 21, 2004, 07:43:08 AM »

"point of no return", - nicely put.
It would take a very long time for the US to return from there, so let's just not join them in the mess.