Author Topic: Anniversary of Columbine High School shooting (Read 2223 times)

gofaster · « **Reply #90 on:** April 22, 2004, 09:22:51 AM »

I'm saying that if the only requirement a teacher needs to carry a gun in a classroom is a concealed weapon permit, then that standard is too low. If you want to arm a teacher, you're going to have to develop a training course that's a bit more complicated than a 4-5 hour class with no exam.

The school resource officer at Columbine was dealing with two heavily armed men. As far as he was concerned, there could've been more, and he didn't know the school was mined with hidden bombs. Everybody was a threat. Children were running everywhere - just watch the video tapes.

Harris and Klebold started firing at 11:19, the school resource officer returned fire at 11:28, and other deputies arrived on scene around 11:30. Trained SWAT teams didn't clear the buildings until an hour later, and these are professionals trained in urban warfare. Do you really think that a handful of teachers, with nothing more than a 4-5 hour class in firearm safety, carrying concealed handguns would've saved the day?

My ideals have the goal of saving lives, not adding to the casualty list. The last thing I want is to see sons and daughters dropping dead in the cafeteria because they made the mistake of running in a blind panic through friendly fire.

edit: I tell you what, you show me data where armed teachers would've prevented school shootings and I'll support your position.

midnight Target · « **Reply #91 on:** April 22, 2004, 09:37:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Thats sad. My father was my best friend, all through out my life and today...had it not been for divorce, I'd have probably made it through my teens without being unruly.

..when they were unruley teens

I'm assuming you were either divorced or the kids were not your own, or they had a step mother?

Unruly teens and divorce make excellent bedfellows. Being their best friend can cure that, even through hardships like divorce...it certainly saved my a-s-s.

Hehe... call me in 10 years.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #92 on:** April 22, 2004, 09:49:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Hehe... call me in 10 years.

Actually, I'll have my son call you in 8 years when he's a teen.

Sixpence · « **Reply #93 on:** April 22, 2004, 09:57:28 AM »

We should give the students guns too, if all the good students had guns that day, they would have killed the bad students with guns.

lazs2 · « **Reply #94 on:** April 22, 2004, 11:13:18 AM »

ok... so lets get this straight... gofaster you are saying that if teachers that have a concealed carry permit have "urban warfare" training then it would be ok with you to have them be in the schools?

All concealed carry clases have some element of urban warfare training to them...

you are grasping at straws... creating a problem where none exists.. no concealed carry permit holders create problems in urban environments that is a proven fact... you claim they might.... that is proven to be wrong.

face it.. you are simply neurotic about guns and will put more and more restrictions on em till they become useless to the people who need them... you do this even in the face of evidence that shows that your view will kill people for no reason.

This is to me the defenition of a liberal... I am glad that you are being so obvious about it.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #95 on:** April 22, 2004, 11:15:05 AM »

ok... so lets get this straight... gofaster you are saying that if teachers that have a concealed carry permit have "urban warfare" training then it would be ok with you to have them be in the schools?

All concealed carry clases have some element of urban warfare training to them...

you are grasping at straws... creating a problem where none exists.. no concealed carry permit holders create problems in urban environments that is a proven fact... you claim they might.... that is proven to be wrong.

face it.. you are simply neurotic about guns and will put more and more restrictions on em till they become useless to the people who need them... you do this even in the face of evidence that shows that your view will kill people for no reason that could have been saved.

This is to me the defenition of a liberal... I am glad that you are being so obvious about it.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #96 on:** April 22, 2004, 11:23:38 AM »

"edit: I tell you what, you show me data where armed teachers would've prevented school shootings and I'll support your position."

gofaster... you want me to prove that teachers with concealed carry permits would act the same way as the other million or so concealled carry permit holders? tell you what... you need to support my position since I can point to the mississippi incident where a teacher prevented a school shooting from escalating but you can point to no example (that is zero) one where a teacher with a concealed carry permit caused any problem... "urban warfare trainning" or not.

lazs

airguard · « **Reply #97 on:** April 22, 2004, 11:53:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Proof that kids need parents, and that your careers should never stand between you and nurturing/raising your children to be the best they can be. To limit what violence they are exposed to involving video games, what they watch on TV, and monitor their every move. Be intrusive. Know who their friends are.

Too bad they may hate you for a few awkward teenage years, they'll thank you later on in life.

very much agree, cause work and careers is more important to many people now than their childs, and that is too bad

gofaster · « **Reply #98 on:** April 22, 2004, 12:19:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
" tell you what... you need to support my position since I can point to the mississippi incident where a teacher prevented a school shooting from escalating but you can point to no example (that is zero) one where a teacher with a concealed carry permit caused any problem... "urban warfare trainning" or not.

lazs

Do you have a link to that incident? Or are you thinking of the Arkansas incident where 2 kids pulled a false fire alarm and fired into the crowd indiscriminately as the students filed through the doors?

I can't point to an example where a teach with a concealed carry permit caused a problem in a classroom because - ta da - no teachers carry concealed weapons in a classroom.

edit: Found this from CNN and this compilation but it appears the shooter had done his business and was attempting to flee when the ass't principle retrieved a .45 and pointed at the suspect to prevent his escape. So, arming the principle wouldn't have done anything to prevent the killings. Those students would still be dead, and we might even have a "hero" inadvertantly losing a round through a wall. What strikes me as odd is that there's no mention of a police presence on the school grounds. Where was the police resource officer during this gunfight?

Glasses · « **Reply #99 on:** April 22, 2004, 02:23:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
It is hitlers birthday.

And Bart Simpson's, the only way Homer remembered it was because it was the same date as Hitler

lazs2 · « **Reply #100 on:** April 22, 2004, 02:31:20 PM »

In the mississippi incident the teacher had to run to his car to get his .45.... when he got back the kid was reloading. when the teacher pointed the .45 at him he stopped and ran out to his car.. the teacher gave chase rightly thinking that the kid would continue to kill when he found a place where citizens weren't spoiling his fun by rudely pointing guns at him.

No telling how many more the kid would have killed if he would have got reloaded and not been chased off.

In a law school a student pulled a gun on a shooter and told him to drop his weapon... the shooter did and was beaten by three former targets.

I like those outcomes... teachers have had guns in school before the bans. there have been no incidents of them "loseing it" that I can think of...

Also... many teachers have concealed carry permits... they carry in "urban" environments. Can you name a time that any of them have come unhinged and just started shooting the people around them? Why would they act any differently in a school situation?

lazs

gofaster · « **Reply #101 on:** April 22, 2004, 03:23:08 PM »

He wasn't reloading, he was escaping. He was done shooting. The only thing Myrick accomplished was apprehending a fleeing felon.

Quote

Alarmed at the sound of gunfire in the halls of his Pearl, Mississippi, high school, Assistant Principal Joel Myrick ran to his car to retrieve a pistol. The shooter was an armed student who marched through the school firing on his fellow classmates and teachers. The assailant's efforts to escape the scene ground to a halt when another student used his own vehicle to force the suspect's white car into the grass, where it spun to a stop. Myrick used the delay to catch up to the armed student and hold him for police.

Cited from the 2nd source in my previous post.

gofaster · « **Reply #102 on:** April 22, 2004, 03:24:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
In a law school a student pulled a gun on a shooter and told him to drop his weapon... the shooter did and was beaten by three former targets.

Also... many teachers have concealed carry permits... they carry in "urban" environments. Can you name a time that any of them have come unhinged and just started shooting the people around them? Why would they act any differently in a school situation?

lazs

Got a source for that law school incident?

Carrying in an urban environment, and carrying in a classroom are two different things and you know it.

edit: did your work for you and found a CNN story about it. Seems the shooter went directly to the professor's office, shot him point-blank, went to another professor's office, shot him point-blank, then went down the stairs and fired at 3 students. He was tackled by 4 male students as he fled the scene. I don't see where arming the professors would've saved their lives - the 2nd one certainly had a chance to flee if he had seen the danger coming. The better bet would've been to arm the students.

lazs2 · « **Reply #103 on:** April 22, 2004, 05:30:26 PM »

no... the incident in mississippi hapened as I said... the teacher pointed the .45 at the shooter who was reloading. There is a link to the real story in another thread.

in the law schools case the real events can be read in John Lott's book "The Bias against guns" the shooter was stopped by an armed student who told him to drop the gun... the shooter dropped the gun and the other three tackled him. Lott reported that the stdent (get the name and details when I get home) that stopped the incident with the gun was interviewed by 20 or so reporters and he told all of them that he had used a gun to make the shooter drop his... all the students collaborate this story... only one or maybe two or the papers even mentioned this.

probly a good reason why you haved formed such bizzare ideas...

but... good to see we drew you out of the closet.... will be difficult for you to start seemingly non biased gun discussions in the future.

why is carrying in a school so special... sometimes those cops you trust are security guards... cops themselves have no training for shooting in a school and cops that rfespond are first come first served and yet.... there is no record of the incidents being any different than any other shootings involving mass murder.

lazs

midnight Target · « **Reply #104 on:** April 22, 2004, 05:46:55 PM »

I just looked up the Appalachian School of Law shooting and read accounts by 6 different reporters from 3 different Countries. NO ONE mentions the guy being disarmed by an armed student. ALL stories agreed that he was tackled and disarmed by a group of students.

I don't believe there is that big of a conspiracy against firearms lazs. Maybe Mr. Lott has it wrong.