Well, the game I loved is dead and gone.

[Hajo]

Yeager....probably 80 to 90% of the peeps here flew AW.

AW was the first on line flight sim.  So means some of us

have been participating in online flight sims for 10 years

or better.

Not really a valid point imho.

[kj714]

Originally posted by debuman
I know that I'm still just a "newbie dweeb" here, but here is an idea that I had.
What about setting the game so that if you get killed, you're out of the game for an hour, or something similair?  This might make people think twice about the "yeah I died but I got the fuel tanks!" type of mentality.  The idea that you can keep getting killed, re-upping, back in the fight in 1 minute, etc. over and over tends to make people take chances that they normally wouldn't.

That would probably make people think twice about playing the game period.

[Tilt]

I believe HT has the correct analysis...............

I can name many AW players who went thru the same thing Urchin (and others) have gone during the AW days...........

Basically they reach a level of proficiency where the challenge is lost...............

Coupled with the game play becoming repetitive........

They search for what made the game great for them............

and then there is the "horde".......


Horde mentality will change the style of game play of any MMPG as it become popular............

The Horde does not support a "pyramid of excellence" where the best rise to the top........the Horde will consume individuals.

Horde mentality is quite simple and effective..............size does matter.

Infact the the emergence of AW3 Beta  provided AW ACM'ers a brief escape...........

Here that part of the community that had so "matured" decided to make it its own and ACM flourished for a period putting up with the bug and subsequent patch whilst feeling part of something new.

Eventually the horde came there too and the arena changed from that of Big PAC to Big Pork.

I realise I am Euro time zoned but I see none of this in AH2 beta yet here is an environment where you can step back in time (AH history time that is) in terms of the horde presence ...............they are simply not there...........

The Horde we have in the AH MA is not an AW horde ........its one of  AH's making ..............its HTC's core market...........old AW players here are the exception........not the rule.

I will say one thing about the AH MA community.........IMO the average age of an AH MA player is younger than that of an AW RR or FR player............the mentality seems less "mature".

This is to be expected.....on line games are generally more accessable to younger players who could never have afforded AW rates. (in real terms AH is significantly cheaper than AW).

Hence greater horde mentality, lesser emphasis on skill aquisition (ACM), greater emphasis on "tribal" victiory............ lower honor code.........lower ettiquette code. (see Lord of the Flies)

AH has not done this........its core user market has............

[Tilt]

I think there is one aspect of the Urchin syndrome that HTC obviously concern them selves with...............

rate of new customer aquisition

v

rate of customer loss

v

average period of customer retention.


Yankee will have these figures they will figure highly in each years budget and Hitechs/Pyro's subsequent planning.

They will ponder how to increase the 1st and 3rd whilst reducing the 2nd. After all their long term future depends upon it.

The problem seems to me to be the 3rd.  Whether it be AW or WB or AH or even IL2.

There is this sort of curve where by players will discover the game and grow in it through skill aquisition and  community membership untill they reach a plateau. There will then be a period of stagnation then they leave.

AH2 ToD offers the potential of extending this curve. But by doing so it must offer an ever increasing and changing sense of growth for its participating players. There must always be another level of some sort for folk to aspire to............and this must be more than simply the number of points on a score board.

[Citabria]

I would estimate (with no real accuracy) just from the time some new members  join my squad having just started playing the game that the average timespan new players play the game then leave is  anywhere from 3months to a year. quite a few true affectioanados stay much longer (since beta) but the "hoard" has a short timespan before it is replaced by a new hoard.

this makes actual ACM engagements closer to real WW2 engagements in terms of diverse skill levels.

you actually have attrition in aces high and the longer you stay the more you will experience clubbing noobs the way many aces did as ww2 progressed just by your experience level being higher than the general ma population.

you even remember old names that have passed away never to be seen again. you watch as these new replacements fly and get killed in what you consider after so much flying to be obviously silly mistakes and you get a good laugh from it.

[opus]

"Thus, there is only one golden age - the time when YOU first learned the game, and played it for long hours every day or every week. Each of us has his own good old days. And for each, they were just as good. "

And so, so true in real life as well. We were all 16-20 once and it was pretty great for most of us. BB, wherever you are.

[Maniac]

Yeager....probably 80 to 90% of the peeps here flew AW.

AW was the first on line flight sim. So means some of us

have been participating in online flight sims for 10 years

or better.

Not really a valid point imho.

Dude, you didnt grasp his post... It was not a slam against AW players.

When AW went tits up the AH playerbase doubled (judging by arena numbers).

And a result of this is that HTC dont have to listen to the community as much as they had to before...

If 50 unhappy players leave now it wont do much to HTC´s economy... If 50 players left AH when AW still was alive then it would have hurt more...

So the conclousion (SP???) is that HTC was more dependent on listen to the communitys wishes before the AW fiasko...

Regards.

[moot]

Originally posted by Tilt
There will then be a period of stagnation then they leave.

[/b]Except if staying is still fun.

AH2 ToD offers the potential of extending this curve. But by doing so it must offer an ever increasing and changing sense of growth for its participating players. There must always be another level of some sort for folk to aspire to............and this must be more than simply the number of points on a score board. [/B]

But this is based on WWII, what would a WWII pilot have found new after about 5-10 more years of WWII, past '45?
Big fish - smal pond, how do you expand on something fixed as the WWII (air) environment was?  By continuously improving realism/immersion of the interface?  
Two types of things you can add to the game, those that last and those that are attractive only by novelty.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Four on one.  Admirable.

I think this might be just the thing Urchin really is talking about.  And the notion that "it's a team game."  I'm with him.

- oldman

ok so what should we have done....get to co-alt and the same E state as him, then ask him politely if he'd like to have a small duel, one at a time of course so he can show us his magnificent skills and we can all be awed and overcome with gratitude that a demi-god had agreed to share with the peasants his superb fighting skills?

Actually what happened was an arrogant foul-mouthed little banana was taught a lesson, 45 seconds after engaging he was flopping around on the deck helpless as a 5 year old whining that the nasty boys weren't playing the game the way he wanted and generally throwing his toys out of the cot.

It's a MASSIVE, MULTIPLAYER game - if you want one on one then go to the DA or set up your own room - don't complain that 4000 other people aren't doing things the way you like them and by golly they better change or you will- shock and horror - leave!!!

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_

ok so what should we have done....get to co-alt and the same E state as him

Well...yeah, something like that.  Let two of your group use their position and energy advantage to attack him, while the other two stay out.  Don't you ever break off when you see someone getting ganged?

It's a MASSIVE, MULTIPLAYER game - if you want one on one then go to the DA or set up your own room - don't complain that 4000 other people aren't doing things the way you like them and by golly they better change or you will- shock and horror - leave!!!

Isn't this Urchin's point?  By viewing this as nothing more than a play-to-win team game, you discourage individual accomplishment by emphasizing goals that have nothing to do with individual skill.  Fly with the numbers, and you'll never have to get good at flying.

- oldman

[myelo]

Originally posted by Maniac
And a result of this is that HTC dont have to listen to the community as much as they had to before...

Flawed premise...

 

So the conclousion (SP???) is that HTC was more dependent on listen to the communitys wishes before the AW fiasko...

...and therefore faulty conclusion.


Any business regardless of size is misguided to not listen to the customer. And I've not seen any evidence that HTC does not listen to the community. After all, how many times has HiTech replied to this thread?

[Maniac]

Any business regardless of size is misguided to not listen to the customer. And I've not seen any evidence that HTC does not listen to the community. After all, how many times has HiTech replied to this thread?

Everyone can listen... But what they do is what counts...

[lazs2]

I believe that people who have been around a long time and claim to know how the evolution of a player works are missing ne thing..

there has never been a situation like this before.  I have never seen an arena in WB or dos AW (the only one I flew) or AH that had 500 players all on a flat rate.

Those who furballed in the early arenas would not recognize the arena here.   It is different than anything that has come previous.

lazs

[skernsk]

Simple reason for me not playing may be burnout as Hitech suggested.  But I feel that it is lack of excitement.  No updates in months .. no new planes .. etc.

And OLD terrains.  Look at the new OZterrain and how the community tripped all over themselves to fly in there again.  I realize that HTC has been working hard on AH2, but a few minor updates or new planes might have kept a few people around.  I have been busy with work and not on, except for special events, but I really haven't missed the game alll that much.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by skernsk
Simple reason for me not playing may be burnout as Hitech suggested.  But I feel that it is lack of excitement.  No updates in months .. no new planes .. etc.

And OLD terrains.  Look at the new OZterrain and how the community tripped all over themselves to fly in there again.  I realize that HTC has been working hard on AH2, but a few minor updates or new planes might have kept a few people around.  I have been busy with work and not on, except for special events, but I really haven't missed the game alll that much.

Lets see ...

You have been busy with work, so you haven't had the time or opportunity to play.

HTC has been buried in the development of AHII, yet you think that they should take time out of their work schedule to throw a couple of bones into AH I.