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Author Topic: Where's my welfare safety net?  (Read 1151 times)

Offline lazs2

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2004, 04:10:23 PM »
mz.  I work for the city.  My group is an enterprise funded group.   In about half the agencies have been privatized.   I am in charge of my budget and I also have to bid against private contractors during negotiations but...

I am a city employee and as such, I am elegible for calpers and 457.   What seems strange to me is that if I am underbid on running the facility it will get taken over by a private co.  Normal practice is for the private co to retain the peson in my position but.... I will be forced to go on a federal government retirement system and out of the far superiior private calpers.

soo.. the city has a private retirement but the private co has a government retirement.

lazs
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Offline Sixpence

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2004, 05:47:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I will be forced to go on a federal government retirement system and out of the far superiior private calpers


You mean FERS? I think that was one of Reagan's better achievements(well, at the advice of Greenspan). It did away with the outdated civil service retirement and replaced it with with a modern one. You can put away up to 10% of your pay and they match you dollar for dollar up to 5%. And there are all kinds of ways to invest it, from no risk to high risk. Alot of people are doing quite well in it.

and you are vested after 3 years
« Last Edit: April 27, 2004, 06:11:08 PM by Sixpence »
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Offline muckmaw

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2004, 06:18:45 PM »
Here's what pisses me off...

My next door neighbor...well he's been picking up disability fot about a year now.

Want to know what his problem is? He's an alcoholic who does nothing to better his situation and sits home all day collecting checks, drinking Vodka and watching game shows.

PS. I know his brand of Vodka because I caught the Mudderfugger tossing empty bottles into my yard so his wife would not find them.

You believe this chit?
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Offline AKcurly

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2004, 06:31:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
*LOL!* Listen to Lazs, the expert on socialism. JFYI I'm currently unemployed, and have been for nearly a year. I live in my own house, drive a BMW, have a nice summerhouse out of town, and I'm part owner (family thing) of a summerhouse in Spain.

Just because you Americans suck at making government programs work, doesn't mean nobody can make them work.


What an incredible load of waffle!  Lazs, I can't believe you let this slip by w/o comment.

GScholz, in the 1960s, all of the Nordic semi-socialist countries were in deep financial distress.  I don't recall the exact numbers, but gross taxation was approaching 60%.  Indeed, your current taxation levels would be exactly the same (or worse) today if it were not for North Sea oil.

So no, your system of governmental finance has a nightmarish history for its residents.  Enjoy the North Sea oil feller, it won't last forever.

And one other thing, had it not been for the United Kingdom, free Europe and the US, all Nordic countries would have been absorbed by the USSR.



curly
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Offline AKcurly

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2004, 06:41:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Did I hurt your feelings or something? How about Sweden or Finland? They don't have oil.


Nah, no hurt feelings, but just amazed by your blinders. :)  How about Sweden, Finland?  Tell me about their national health/welfare/whatever system.  Then tell me about their tax burden on their gross income.

curly
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Offline AKIron

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2004, 07:10:25 PM »
We've done the USSR and Norway debate Curly. GScholz is sore our nukes scared his grandparents and I think he figures we are the greater of the evils.
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Offline Nash

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2004, 07:24:39 PM »
Bad news muckmaw - I'm sorry to hear it.

Look at it as short-term, and you'll be rewarded for your sacrifrice by a healthy wife and kid... so that's something. Keep your eye on the prize.
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Offline strk

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Re: Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2004, 08:00:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
Get this...my monthly income just got slammed...why am I paying taxes, again?

How do people go out on workers comp or disability and defraud their companies and government and still live large?

Listen to my personal story.

My wife is 5 months pregnant with our second child. She developed something called placenta previa which puts her and the baby at high risk.

At the advice of her ob-gyn, she went on disability from her job as an assistant retail store manager and was told to stay off her feet.

Apparently, her company did the bare minimum for disability insurance.

Her weekly income was slashed from $800 net to the NYS minumum of $140.00.

That's $41,600 a year after tax to $7,280!

How are we supposed to get by on this until she can go back to work?

This is my taxes at work?

Nice.:rolleyes:

...end rant.


Damn that is some bad luck.  I hope your wife and child turn out ok.
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Offline AKcurly

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2004, 12:36:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
You'd have to ask our Swedish and Finnish patrons here, but as far as I know they have very similar social benefits and taxation.  


Gonna need some help.  The first document I found was dated 2002 and I'm not looking further.

In Sweden in 2002, for income below SEK 430,000, the effective taxation rate (including both national incoming tax and municipal income tax) is 52%; for income above SEK 430,900, the effective rate is 57%.

What is SEK 430,000 in something I recognize (Euros, dollars, pounds?)  Sorry, I don't know the exchange rate for Swedish kroners.

Any of you (Americans) paying 52-57% income tax? :)

curly
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Offline AKcurly

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2004, 03:36:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
430,000 SEK is approx. 56,000 USD.


I must however call you on the Swedish tax percentage.

http://skatteverket.se/skatter/skattetabeller/04/preliminar/skattetabell_29_m.pdf

As the income tax table clearly states you must earn more than 155,401 SEK (20,200 USD) PER MONTH to get an income tax of 50% or more.

If you earn 430,000 SEK per year that's 35,833 SEK per month. Of those 35,833 SEK a Swede would have to pay 12,558 SEK income tax. That's 35%.

Those 35% cover health insurance, pension, education, care of the elderly etc.

How much do you pay for your health insurance? How about for your kids?

How much do you pay for your pension?

How much do you pay for your kids' education?

How much do you pay to get care for your elderly?

Etc. etc. etc.

We all pay pretty much the same ... we just pay in different ways.


GScholz, you did notice I used a 2002 document, right?  It was an international comparison of taxes and I'm sure it was correct.  Please recall I was talking about the 1960s time frame.

curly
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Offline AKIron

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2004, 03:48:53 PM »
GScholz, there is a huge difference between me spending my money on the things you mentioned and giving my money to the government to redistribute as it sees fit. Socialism reduces us all to the lowest common denominator. Well, some are elevated rather than reduced, but at the expense of my unwilling efforts.
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Offline AKcurly

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2004, 03:58:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Excuse me?

Perhaps you could provide a link to this document?

You conveniently dodged my questions on how much you pay for the services our taxes cover.


http://www.vinge.com/pdf/Taxation_in_Sweden_2002.pdf

I didn't dodge it GScholz, hell, I really don't know!  Throughout 36 years of employment, all deductions (total) probably averaged 35% (but this is a WAG.)

I've never been very interested in making money (or I would have selected a different area of employment.)

I know I made enough to pay for a home in 15 years; I know I made enough to buy new cars when I wanted them; I always had a bass boat when Nimitz was public school age; I always put money in an IRA.

Concerning the education of Nimitz, he won a full scholarship as an undergraduate and borrowed the money for law school.

Sorry dude, that's the best I can do(and the most I will reveal.)

curly
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Offline AKIron

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2004, 03:59:25 PM »
Dunno about "expertise" but my experience with socialism  consists of paying too much in taxes so too many can enjoy the fruits of my labors. He that won't work shouldn't eat.
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Offline AKcurly

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2004, 04:10:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
A time where my nation was recovering from the devastations of the most destructive war in human history ... yeah, that's a fair comparison.


I selected the 60s - 70s as the time frame for two important reasons:

1) I remember many articles about the socialist experiments in Sweden.  I remember taxration rates approaching 60% (and it looks like they haven't changed much.)

2) I wanted to choose a time when I could judge Sweden before the North Sea oil field was discovered.  Oil warps the economy.  Take a look at Saudi Arabia's economy -- why they're so efficient, they pay their citizens.  Heh, does Alaska still pay their residents to live there?

Finally, if you think Sweden spent a lot of money recovering from WW2, you're talking about peanuts compared to the amount of money the US spent in executing the war and the Marshall plan which followed.

curly
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Offline Eagler

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Where's my welfare safety net?
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2004, 04:25:15 PM »
muck

sry to hear about your bad luck and wish you and yours the best

j sent an email to HTC, there is one month of AH you don't have to worry about

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