Why AH sucks

[Gadfly]

I thought I had tried that, Jihad.  Thanks for the tip, I'll do it from now on.

Loser111, if you mean to say that I rule in the game, you are mistaken.  I suck, even though I try hard, but I do pass a good time, and that is why we do it, right?
 

As for newbies, I think they adapt to whatever the conditions are. It only becomes a problem when you change them.  This I why I do not like any assist for newbs in any arena, although they are fine for offline and hth.  The simple act of logging into an arena  with hundreds of other people should mean something.

Most persons will not be deterred by getting spanked; they will work at it until they can at least live, if not inflict some pain themselves.  Some do it from the safety of offline and hth, others suck it up and take their licks in the Big Show.

I guess what I am saying is that the MAIN ARENA should be the premier showcase of the game and the talent, not the bunny slope.

[Eagler]

 

Originally posted by Gadfly:
Take it as a given that I am a dick, and refute what I claim.

OK, Done

Eagler

[-lazs-]

What is the difference between my "opinion" and my "stance" liz?   I have no problem with you creating any type of scenario you like.  I am sure that there is a large and grateful group out there.   Where we but heads (sorry ram) is... When you try to make the MA into the same anal retentive, boring mess that I consider the "historical" or "realistic" scenarios.  

 There should be a place for fun.  A place where people can jump in for an hour or two and just have fun.   This place should have the most accurate FM's and gunnery that match other arenas but it should be easy to get into action and the planeset should be balanced, varied and fair.   We both want the accurate FM's but we part ways on the balance , varied and action part.  
lazs

[Gadfly]

The diffrence, Laz, is that your opinion is worth reading and consideration, even though I do not agree with some of your conclusions.

Why would any of the things above hurt instant action fun flyers?  The things above DO limit serious flyers(serious in desire, not ability).

[-lazs-]

The way it would hurt is this.   If you get rid of inflight radar on such a large map you reduce the action because ther is no way of knowing where the action IS... conversly, you do not limit or turn the arena into "the bunny slope" by having in flight radar.  it is of no use in the actual fight.   ACM is not affected.  It is simply a tool to get into action.  

I believe that most newbies do not want to hunt around for a fight for the few hours that they have on line. I know for a fact that some of the best players in the game log when the action lags.   They still kill most everything they see, they just get bored when they don't see anything.  

The MA should be the place to hone skill by getting into fights.   That same skill will transfer into a radarless "scenario".   There is nothing "bunny slope" about it.   Patience being highlighted as a skill is "bunny slope" IMO not the other way around.
lazs  

[Gadfly]

Laz, I knew you were going to say that, so I went and got the stats from my 2 hours of flying last night.  I also got the stats for 3 other guys flying, that were there for about as long or less.  To me, this shows what can be done.  Here are the conditions:

4-12 persons in the arena, 6-8 mostly.  No inflight radar, 30 mile tower radar, and low icons(HA)  This was in the New Guinea terrain, and you know how big that sucker is.  There was no shortage of killing going on, and my time to target flying bombers was only 15-20 minutes climbing to 15,000+ alt, 10 minutes or less NOE.  Here are the stats:

I flew 1 Fighter sortie-had to bail after losing my tail feathers.
8 bomber sorties(7 in the Betty), 1 ata kill, killed twice.
 

Pilot A, helping me kill fields in a heavy fighter did:

17 sorties for 4 ata kill, dying 8 times in the process.

Pilot B did 15 sorties for 4 ata kills and landed six sorties.

Pilot C flew 12 sorties for 5 kills and was killed 4 times.

I doubt any  of those guys would complain about a boring 2 hours.

The radar is there, you have to take 10 seconds to look at it before you launch, and do some GCI work when you die(just to be polite). That is with small numbers.  For large numbers you just fly towards the closest enemy base and you have a fight, radar or not.

[AKDejaVu]

Your argument is fundamentally flawed Gadfly.  Sure you didn't use radar to get where you were going.  But did the enemy use it to find you to make the game less boring?

I'm willing to bet they did.  You see... cons aproaching a base attract attention.  The radar showed cons.. people went up to meet them.

Radar made the game fun for you last night.. and you didn't even know why.

AKDejaVu

[Gadfly]

Uh, AKdejavu, I used the radar, just like they did:  On the ground, and with their countrymen helping them when they died.  I am not against radar, at all, just inflight, pinpoint AWACS radar.

[AKDejaVu]

Errm.. wait...

were you in the MA when you did this?

If it was in a separate server.. then lets look at what's wrong with the comparison:

1. Everyone agreed to the terms coming in.
2. There were a limited number of people somewhat concentrating the fight.
3. The arena was set up to prove a point.

I have had fun just flying H2H in an FFA arena for hours.  doesn't mean I would rather see everyone launch from the same base in the MA and just furball.

Many things that make sense on a smaller (dare I say SCENARIO) scale, won't work well in the MA.

AKDejaVu

[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 12-31-2000).]

[Gadfly]

It was in the Historical Arena, nothing special, regular settings, people come and go, newbies and vets alike.

The point was that you can easily find a fight without inflight radar, no matter the numbers flying.  I used the Historical Arena to illustrate THAT.  The same thing seems to work in the Main Arena, too;  there is no inflight in there, with 30-200 flying around.


Actually, my post above means nothing to you, nor was it supposed to.  I was talking to Laz, who does understand the conditions of the example.

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by Gadfly:

By that same token, the MA should have EZmode flight, etc.

For the love of god, I hope no one else seriously believes this.

------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

 

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 12-31-2000).]

[chisel]

 It gets used ,no doubt about that! Radar in WB's is a team effort, the GCI guides you into visual range for the intercept. Guiding someone to a prefect intercept is pretty sweet. You dont/wont get the full picture as a pilot only the little section your involved with. Fog of War and all that, Ya know  . We do have inflight arrows to help with 'Pilots intuition' (points to largest concentration of nme. No range info. Doesnt update in realtime, every 5 min?)but sometimes its more frustrating than anything.

BTW: Some people do fly extended patrols in the HA. The hunt is the Icecream, the kill is just the cherry to top it off.

[Gadfly]

Yeah Chisel, but over here the the sector bars make for a much better "arrow" than the F1 arrow.

As for the hunt in the HA, well, every time I launch it is my plan to do my work and land.

LJK Raubvogel, I would not think anyone here took that seriously.

[Downtown]

I think the + and - change the size of the clipboard.  I don't currently have an account so I could be wrong, but I believe Insert and Delete (Home, Page Up, Delete, End and Page Down key area.)  will actually zoom the map itself.

------------------
"Looks Mean as Hell! Clare Lee Chenault.
 
When?
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.

[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 12-31-2000).]

[-lazs-]

liz... apples and oranges.   You are talking about an arena that has only two sides and no vehicles.   You are talking obvious missions.  I have also flown in the MA with funked where there were 30 guys (or more)on and we both seen a total of about 5 guys and got into a total of 2 fights in a couple of hours.  

I believe that you have missrepresented everything about the "Hope for Action" arena except.... The fact that even with unlimited free hours.... a couple hundred on line.... you could still not get more than a few diehards to fly in that dog of an arena!   Face it.... It only works if diehards make it work and there just aren't many of them.  

WB is not AH.... In AH me and squaddies have been bored an logged off after an hour or so even with in flight radar and over 100 on because we could not find a fight that was worth having.   I think that the more we encourage "realistic" flying the worse it gets.   It's like the old days when they had the porked 1.03 FM and everyone postured and jokeyed for position till they could take a risk free shot because the FM was too limited for evasives.  Now, they do it to preserve (or gain) precious "perk points" which will allow them to attack with an unfair advqantage even easier.  

It's quite simple really... The more that patience becomes a skill the less a lot of people enjoy the game.   there needs to be some place for those who just want to have fun to go.  

I don't get it really... It would seem that WB is now everything you could have wanted... "historical" sides with an unbalanced RPS to simulate the "ebb and flow" of war.... Plenty of people on... same ol axis vs allied fights over and over... Why would you even consider AH which is everything that you despised in the old WB?   I left WB when it became what you wanted and never looked back.
lazs