Author Topic: Why AH sucks  (Read 3956 times)

lazs

  • Guest
Why AH sucks
« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2001, 12:23:00 PM »
What do you mean not a simulation?   FM's, gunnery, views, leathiality,  Ac systems are ALL "simulated" ten times better than in WB...  The only thing not "simulated" is the dubious feature of Allied vs axis.  A feature that is impossible to simulate in a realistic manner and would be a boor if it could be.   No.... The planes (and related) are all "simulated" very well right now and getting even better while in WB.... The simulation aspect get's worse when it doesn't simply stay bad while the axis vs allies is such a comprimise that it doesn't even simulate anything about WWII combat anyway... WB has managed to create a lose/lose situation.

But, as rip has said (twice now).... In AH you can have Historical matchups if you like if you simply fly in those arenas.  
lazs

Offline Westy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2871
Why AH sucks
« Reply #76 on: January 03, 2001, 12:23:00 PM »
" When they gonna activate the powerups?"
  If  they'd only model the WB's 109-F you'd be all set!


Then again, power ups might be more up WB's ally. Just look at the huge honking bullet radiii they get! And HIT bubbles too!  That's kind alike AW, no?  

 

   -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-03-2001).]

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8542
Why AH sucks
« Reply #77 on: January 03, 2001, 12:37:00 PM »
Gadfly,

I'm not sure I see your problem.  Wanna give you idea a try?  Request the use of the SEA some Sat afternoon.  The CM staff will assist you in setting up what ever map and arena configurations you want.  Give it a run and see how many people tune in.  If the response is overwhelming HTC might be more willing to consider a permanent arena.  Don't whine about it, put your idea to the test.

Regards,
Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Mayhem

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 702
      • http://www.damned.org
Why AH sucks
« Reply #78 on: January 03, 2001, 12:41:00 PM »
(response in ()
Originally posted by Gadfly:

First let me say that it doesn't HAVE to suck, there are many very good things about it, some of them revolutionary.  I also post this not because I do not like AH, but because I DO like it, and want to be able have fun in the skies of HTC.  You can argue with the importance of my points, but you can not argue with my logic.

( actuallly I can becuase your logic would require players to either sit and monitor bases callign off boggies to late or require me to have a pentuim XI 9ghz machine with 256gb of mem and a 200mbps and HTC to have a $1,000,000.00 per hour programmer to make it all work, HTC has to keep the game playable for most players and have to keep the game within there own limitations. the only other option is to keep towards the trend of ripping air warrior off and never progressing the genre of mass multiplayer online WWII flight simms. I personally lean towards gameplay with accurate FLight models this keeps me out of CFS2, Air Warrior MV, Warbirds, and fighter ace. IF anything you seem to want AH to become warbirds and to me warbirds sucks in compairison. First game Air warrior witch lead to warbirds wich lead to AH time for Aces high to break new ground and do things right not keep basing the game off of another I know where HiTech and Pyro game from and this game is difrent even it's flight models are better but still need improving. People wll cry about uber planes and bombers and AAA and it's all based on opinion the only solution is spawn all players at 15k in the same plane and that would perty much put us in the same seat as a CFS2 player.)

What makes AH suck:

1. Inflight radar.

(I think it should be more complex see my above post)

2. toejamty clipboard map.

(needs to show more detail mabey even be bigger with a lower scale ratio such as 1 inch grid = 10k rather then 25 miles)

3. Super bomber fire control system.
(1 on 1 bomber vs a fighter a bomber should win and few people like to gun in the game. the option to this is to either have computer controlled guns like warbirds, gunner only like older Air warrior versions or just like AH has it, perosonally I like the AH's take on gunners)

There are other things I do not like, but they are personal preferences, whereas these are things that make this a game, not a simulation.

Here is my argument for the things above:

1.  The best rebuttal of this that I have heard is that it simulates the rudimentary radar, sound and observer stations of the period.  I say that the perfect transmittal medium of the radio buffer simulates those things; inflight radar has no basis in real life before AWACs took flight.

(I for one do not want to runn around the areana calling off boggies. see my above post. all Radar does is give you position in history you would here the call for Alt location Bearing and Type such as bobmer or fighter or small or large contact type this is way to hard to do in game)

2.  In bombers, there is a person that does exactly what the (WB) F1 maps does.  In fighters there are railroads, roads and identifiable features that allow a pilot to, more or less, pinpoint his position.  The strip map he carries on his knee bears no resemblance to our clipboard map.

(Play Warbirds then I for one don't want Aces high to be warbirds or Air warrior there have been alot of good ideas stolen from air warior and there have been some stupid ideas stolen from air warrior as well I like the knee map I think ti should have more detail and have a position in the buff to show even more detail)


3.  The idea is that we SIMULATE WWII air combat.  The theory that AH's B-29 fire control simulates this better than a computer controlled otto is simply silly.  I know, I know, airborne AI killing you sucks, but, well, how come it is OK for the field acks?  Same damn thing, if you ask me, and not on point in either case.  We accept many things in the name of immersion and this is one of those things that we simply have to accept:  An AI otto simulates discrete gunners better than one guy aiming all of the weapons(at least till we get the B-29).

(again Play Warbirds I hated the warbirds AI and I hated Air warriors gunner only method. realistically a lone fighter doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell against a medium or heavy buff. Bombers rarely took off without a full crew load AH gives you the best of both worlds. the B29 methods has a disadvantage as well namely it waste alot of ammo decreases accuracy for the other gunns and blows ammo in guns that can't possible hit the target not to metion you still have to have good gunnry skills)
 
In closing, please DO consider this a whine, but not a slam.  I want to fly in AH, as well as drive the PT boat, but I also demand a little more simulation than it offers right now.

(I think it does the best job yet and would rather them put the effort into more accurate
plane models. Like put the torque into the n1k2 and the speed into the f4u that they really had. the f4u feels really slow and its acceleration seems to suck at times If anything I want accurately modeled aircraft and thats my opinion. But over all in reality AH has improved and will most likely continue to improve. It may even someday get ridd of the stupid 3 way war from Air warrior. either by going 2 way or 5 way war.)


Lizking

(Mayhem)



------------------
Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
"Destination anywhere! So Far Gone, I'm almost There."
The Damned! (Est. 1988) Damned if we do - No fun if we don't!
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline Mayhem

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 702
      • http://www.damned.org
Why AH sucks
« Reply #79 on: January 03, 2001, 12:45:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Gadfly:
Under your terms, Lz, you are right.  AH is a silly little game, not a simulation.  Warbirds at least carries on the tradition of being the most accurate simulation on the net.  I had hopes that HTC would attempt the same, but it appears that they(and the masses) want mindless games instead.  No worries on this end, I still have a blast in the HA, SL's and events over in WB, But the potential of AH is being wasted in the pursuit of Dudez.  When they gonna activate the powerups?

warbirds sucks dog doo just like Air warrior the game it ripps off!

I started with Air warrior moved to Warbirds for the flight models and eventualy moved to Aces High Ive seen what else is out there and it sucks. people come from warbirds with there stupid elitist attitude. the only thing hard core and elietest about warbirds was it's stupid price. All they did was make the carriers move, couple the controls, and put in a more realistic flight model. the planes still used the same stupid compairisons as Air warrior and hell the even used the same stupid maps as Air warrior did for awhile. Realistically Warbirds was a good game better then Air warrior, in the same light AH is better then warbirds and Air Warrior. If You want Warbirds goto waribirds there cheaper now then Aces High and WBIII looks like It can be the chit!. But please don't try to make AH WBs or AW. Next thing you know you're going to want a relaxed reality areana to!

Mayhem 33rd SG

[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-03-2001).]
"Destination anywhere! So Far Gone, I'm almost There."
The Damned! (Est. 1988) Damned if we do - No fun if we don't!
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
Why AH sucks
« Reply #80 on: January 03, 2001, 12:46:00 PM »
Lizking, I'll be glad to render my services for showing you how to defeat a B17 anytime.  I rarely get shot down by the so called Super Lazer guns...it is a training issue with you apparently.

The B17 guns have been beaten to death, most who fly and fight them correctly don't post discrepancies about them here, since they've learned how to correctly kill them.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-03-2001).]

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
Why AH sucks
« Reply #81 on: January 03, 2001, 06:00:00 PM »
Gentlemen(and Laz)-I did not begin this to argue relative points of various games.  I purposely avoided comparisons as long as I could.  I wanted to discuss these aspects of Aces High, not debate relative merits.

This has gone beyond discussing the three points I raised, and why they should be implemented. I take full responsability for the degeneration, and end it here, but I will answer the questions raised, to the best of my ability.

Rip-Killing bombers isn't a problem, hell, I only FLY bombers.


Laz-Why is it okay for you to be able to fly all the time, but my "ilk" are forced to fly 1-3 times a week at specific times?  30 seconds more for you equals 4-5 DAYS a week I can't fly.

Westy-You are so wrong in so many ways that I will break my ignoration of you only long enough to say:  <S>! For being consistant.

Also, HTC deserves a big salute for creating this great fun thing that is enjoyed by so many.  


Me, I'll keep my account here and, well, fly WB SL's, Scenarios and events, with hope eternal.

Offline Westy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2871
Why AH sucks
« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2001, 08:00:00 PM »
 I know where your buttons are Lizk__, er Gadly. that's all I'm interested in pushing when you (or MG or Cabby or Stiglr..) come trolling in my playground with your tripe.

 You too, remain consistant. <S> back at ya.
 
-Westy

sky_bax

  • Guest
Why AH sucks
« Reply #83 on: January 03, 2001, 11:18:00 PM »
Never read so much BS in my life. It would take an hour just to respond to it all.

And good old Lazs, I see you haven`t changed a bit.

When will you ever see that what YOU find fun is not fun for everyone?

You make it very clear you like all planes VS all planes ALL the time. I would find that boring.

I like early war, mid war, late war, phased in with "somewhat" historical match ups throughout. You find that boring.

If we all liked the same thing it would be a boring world wouldn`t it?

But who I REALLY feel sorry for is some AH members reading all this BS that don`t have a clue about what the REAL facts are.

BTW, nice picture Westy, to bad you forgot the rest of the thread to go with it that actually HAD some information. Teaching the new guys well I see he he.

Iv`e been waiting a long time for one of those to pop up on this board. Good threads on FM, damage M, and balistics are all too common on AGW, but sadly rare around here.

Enjoy your party.


------------------
Skybax
328th Fighter Squadron
 www.352ndFighterGroup.com
Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney

Offline Hajo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6035
Why AH sucks
« Reply #84 on: January 04, 2001, 12:49:00 AM »
Otto Gunners in bombers????   Just what we need, a death star arGHH!!  The lethality of the gunners in the bombers imho is already way to high.
- The Flying Circus -

Offline Jekyll

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 89
      • http://www.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Why AH sucks
« Reply #85 on: January 04, 2001, 04:03:00 AM »
I thought I'd seen everything on these boards, until .....

 
Quote
What do you mean not a simulation? FM's, gunnery, views, leathiality, Ac systems are ALL "simulated" ten times better than in WB...

Hmm.. game-v-simulation yet again.  

OK guys, are the 'pilots' simulated?  G-tolerances, strength, distance estimation?

I suppose you could say the FM's are simulated, except I think anyone would admit that we can fly the planes in AH in manners impossible for real pilots.  The guns are simulated too, even though we can regularly hit with shots that the very best WW2 pilots would have found practically impossible.  And please no more hoary old argument that we have more flight time than WW2 pilots.  If THAT made any sense, then the 'high-time' Real Life pilots would have scored the most kills.  

The lethality is simulated?  Do you really think so?  No partial damage to aircraft pieces... its either there or its gone entirely.  No drag or flight control problems if you have a couple of 20mm hits in the back of your Corsair.  No oxygen bottles to blow up, no instruments to damage, no engine controls to run away, no radio failures... hell we can even send radio messages in our CHUTES!!!

How about the views?  In AH we can see directly behind us, as though our virtual pilot can do a 'Linda Blair' and swivel his head through 180 degrees.  He can even stick his head apparently outside the canopy for certain views.

Guys, its a 'game'.  It's a good game, but its still only a game.  It is as realistic as WB, or AW, or Fighter Ace, or any of its genre.  The planes in AH look somewhat like their real-life counterparts, and that is where the 'simulation' ends.

Offline Westy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2871
Why AH sucks
« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2001, 07:57:00 AM »
 Just call it selective use (or omission) of facts Skybax. I'm quite able to participate in the game you, Lizking and MG have been playing already for quite some time now.
 
  -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-04-2001).]

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
Why AH sucks
« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2001, 08:15:00 AM »
Sky-box,

In all honesty WBs is ok for an old game.
Especially for all those vagrant Mac users and PC folks that never could buy a 3D card.

Dont be so hard on yourself.
====
AcesHigh positively kicks bellybutton on WBs....

When your ready to make the leap to quality, you know where to come  

Yeager
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
Why AH sucks
« Reply #88 on: January 04, 2001, 08:35:00 AM »
   
Quote
Originally posted by sky_bax:

You make it very clear you like all planes VS all planes ALL the time. I would find that boring.

Then you very well may like AH, it has Plane vs Plane, vs, Tank, vs PT boats, and visa versa, have you tried it recently, Skybax?

 
Quote
I like early war, mid war, late war, phased in with "somewhat" historical match ups throughout. You find that boring.
[/b]

We're getting there with the A/C, all the cards are in place, this spring you'll see AH getting filled out with more and more A/C.Keep in mind when Warbirds was 1 year and 3 months old, they had about 1/2 the planes we have so far...beginning from beta thru V.95.    But, I don't suppose you were around Warbirds back then....

We have historical match ups, see the "Check Six" events, "Snap Shots" and "Tour of Duty" events run weekly.
 
Quote
But who I REALLY feel sorry for is some AH members reading all this BS that don`t have a clue about what the REAL facts are.
[/b]

Oh, and just what ARE the real facts Skybax? Would you like to log on and tell the consistent 200+ users online every night what the facts are?    
 
Quote
Iv`e been waiting a long time for one of those to pop up on this board. Good threads on FM, damage M, and balistics are all too common on AGW, but sadly rare around here.
[/b]


Skybax, wipe your mouth after you spew, you're making yourself look like an idiot, I highly doubt you are one.  Do alittle thread research before you spew.  There are alot of threads on the above you mentioned, most in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum.
Quote

Enjoy your party.
[/b]

We are, and we will!


------------------
   
~Death Rattlers~
Member of 'MAG-33' (Click here)
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info
Click here for interviews with other Aces High Squadrons
If you cannot do something well,
learn to enjoy doing it poorly!




[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-04-2001).]

lazs

  • Guest
Why AH sucks
« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2001, 08:38:00 AM »
sky... What are you talkintg about?  I don't want "all planes vs all planes all the time" as u say.  Read any of my posts.   I want balanced plane sets.  I love early war and mid war and even on occassion, late war.   I have propossed a way to have all of them in the same arena and it does not have early fighting late or mid war planes.   Allied vs axis is the thing i find silly and limiting.  right now, AH is fine because it is balanced mid war set.  

jekyl... I did not say that AH was a great simulation.  Read what I said.   I said it was ten times better than WB as a simulation.  This, in response to lizzies statement that WB was the best SIMULATION.. I think the FM's are ten times better than WB and certainly the views are 10 times better simulated.  I can't think of one view that you couldn't get from inside the real plane.  None that I can see are from "outside the cockpit".

lizzie.   a little more honesty would have helped your cause.   You are the one who diverted from the three original, seemingly inocent, points and got to your real agenda.  I really don't get your point tho... Are you saying that unless the game is axis vs allied and the fights involve only planes that historically met each other in actuall air to air combat.... The sim is worthless to you?   What about finger fours and such?  If you don't fly in em then your sortie is worthless no?    Why don't you just pick your targets/fights?   Why and endless scripted WWII scenario for the rest of us so that you can pretend to be a WWII fighter pilot.

It is a game guys.   It is also a simulation of WWII planes.   the two are not mutually exclusive.
lazs