Author Topic: Discipline  (Read 1862 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Discipline
« on: May 04, 2004, 08:46:46 AM »
Interesting story below(See link) but I want to begin with my own philosphy regarding discipline.  Positive reinforcement combined with negative punishment go hand in hand. The more positive reinforcement during periods of good behavior lessens the chances of bad behavior, therefore checks negative punishment.  However, when bad behavior is present, from 2 yrs to roughly 4 yrs. old, a swat on the butt (or two..) is necessary.  After roughly age 4, there are other methods that work better than physical punishment, like loss of privileges (whatever they may be). A spanking should NEVER leave marks or welts, if it does, you probably should not be spanking your child as you are letting your own anger get out of control.

I've been witnessing both my method of raising children (like my father) and the opposite of that method, which is my neighbor, who did not believe in any physical "swat on the butt" style punishment with their child, a son who is now age 8, same age as my oldest son.

He is hell on wheels.  He's a bully on the bus.  He's a goof off, constantly disrupting everything around him.  His grades are sub-par.

He is also on my sons team, which I help coach, and he is never paying attention, always getting away with murder when we turn our backs.  He also runs alot, due to our policy that when a kid gets as disruptive as Austin does, our head coach usually makes them run to a designated point (like a distant tree or goal post) and back until they get the message.  Austin does NOT get the message.  Austin runs alot.

His father is disappointed with his son's baseball ability, and constantly consoles with me about his son's abilities. The kid has natural talents, but sucks big time in any sport he plays because he never pays attention and is always goofing off (no discipline his whole life...remember?)  I''ve told his father to consider pulling Austin out of the game when he begins bending over and pretending to fart on other kids while the game is going on...he's not done that yet, but yanking a kid out of the middle of the game is VERY effective from my experience. (I've done it once, and I've never had to do it again)

Last night was the final straw...he knee'd another kid in the groin (lucky they wear cups) and pushed the other kid down..his intentions were harmful.  

Now, you can tell his Dad is seething with anger inside, you can read him pretty good. But he won't discipline his child(We've discussed this before over the years)  The worse thing he has done is ground him for 1 day, of which turned out to be a half day because I saw Austin that evening riding a bike.

So, just a note for all you parents just beginning life with a little one, use positive reinforcement, and plenty of it, when your child behaves....but do NOT be afraid to give them a swat now and then to straighten out bad behavior when they're toddlers...then you won't have the high blood pressure that my neighbor has. ;)

Incidently, the story below?  That kids too old for spanking...it won't work at that age, it'll just "harden" them if you know what I mean.
http://www.komo-am.com/stories/31070.htm

Offline Sandman

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Discipline
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2004, 08:57:16 AM »
There can be discipline without corporal punishment.
sand

Offline Charon

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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2004, 09:03:00 AM »
It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on how to raise your children Rip. I also get the impression you spend a lot of time with your kids, which I've noticed among my frineds seems to help as well.

We're working on our first (40 year old daddy) and it's a bit scary when you think about how easy it is to screw everything up or get lazy or take the easy way out.

Charon

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2004, 09:11:49 AM »
Of course it could just be that his kid has ADDHD and yours don't...

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2004, 09:13:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
There can be discipline without corporal punishment.


LMAO and look at his avitar!
Yea..ok:rofl
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2004, 09:14:55 AM »
Quote
Consequences of Corporal Punishment
Accumulated research supports the theory that corporal punishment is an ineffective discipline strategy with children of all ages and, furthermore, that it is often dangerous. Corporal punishment most often produces in its victims anger, resentment, and low self-esteem. It teaches violence and revenge as solutions to problems, and perpetuates itself, as children imitate what they see adults doing. Research substantiates the following consequences of corporal punishment:
Children whose parents use corporal punishment to control antisocial behavior show more antisocial behavior themselves over a long period of time, regardless of race and socioeconomic status, and regardless of whether the mother provides cognitive stimulation and emotional support (Gunnoe & Mariner, 1997; Kazdin, 1987; Patterson, DeBaryshe, & Ramsey, 1989; Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997).
A consistent pattern of physical abuse exists that generally starts as corporal punishment, and then gets out of control (Kadushin & Martin, 1981; Straus & Yodanis, 1994).
Adults who were hit as children are more likely to be depressed or violent themselves (Berkowitz, 1993; Strassberg, Dodge, Pettit, & Bates, 1994; Straus, 1994; Straus & Gelles, 1990; Straus & Kantor, 1992).
The more a child is hit, the more likely it is that the child, when an adult, will hit his or her children, spouse, or friends (Julian & McKenry, 1993; Straus, 1991; Straus, 1994; Straus & Gelles, 1990; Straus & Kantor, 1992; Widom, 1989; Wolfe, 1987).
Corporal punishment increases the probability of children assaulting the parent in retaliation, especially as they grow older (Brezina, 1998).
Corporal punishment sends a message to the child that violence is a viable option for solving problems (Straus, Gelles, & Steinmetz, 1980; Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997).
Corporal punishment is degrading, contributes to feelings of helplessness and humiliation, robs a child of self-worth and self-respect, and can lead to withdrawal or aggression (Sternberg et al., 1993; Straus, 1994).
Corporal punishment erodes trust between a parent and a child, and increases the risk of child abuse; as a discipline measure, it simply does not decrease children's aggressive or delinquent behaviors (Straus, 1994).
Children who get spanked regularly are more likely over time to cheat or lie, be disobedient at school, bully others, and show less remorse for wrongdoing (Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997).
Corporal punishment adversely affects children's cognitive development. Children who are spanked perform poorly on school tasks compared to other children (Straus & Mathur, 1995; Straus & Paschall, 1998).

Offline Charon

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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2004, 09:29:16 AM »
A  swat on the but or two in extreme cases between ages 2-4 is different from using corporal punishjment in all situations, IMO. For example, a dangerous behavior. We lived by a busy street when I was a kid and I can still remember getting swatted at about age 4 or 5 for running towards the street.

FWIW I have a bunch of friends with well behaved children, and the common link seems to be the time they spend with the children and no actually meaning no.


Charon

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2004, 09:38:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LMAO and look at his avitar!
Yea..ok:rofl


Corporal punishment of fax machines is healthy.
sand

Offline Airhead

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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2004, 10:40:23 AM »
More important than spanking a child is spending time with a child. We sacrificed my wife's income so she could stay home with our daughter, and we've never regretted our decision. It meant we couldn't afford a BMW and had to drive a Taurus, but in the long run it's been worth it- they have 19 years of closeness and love that can't be bought for any price.

Now, spanking at eight years old? If it's necessary to spank a child at eight years old then something went wrong when the child was seven, or six, or five, or four, or three....

Offline Torque

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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2004, 11:37:17 AM »
"FWIW I have a bunch of friends with well behaved children, and the common link seems to be the time they spend with the children and no actually meaning no."

The trend i see is if you want them to act like little adults you must treat them as such. The dialogue between appears to play a bigger part than the time spent with them. Explaining and having a good reasoning behind the "no" kids often tend to respond better.

Offline mechanic

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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2004, 11:43:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
There can be discipline without corporal punishment.

as shown in your profile photo yeah....?  :D
IMO, swatting a child for bad behaviour is very important. not that im a dad yet, but i remember getting some light swattings for mister meaners (and sometimes a harsh beating for serious misbehaviour) and, although i hated my father for a few days and planned to run away, leave the country, etc, when i matured and thought about many of the scenarios, i realised i was infact very deserveing of this action, and it only served to make me stronger and more disiplined.
Sometimes i was beaten with too much force, but then my father was of military background, and his father before him, so it was in his blood. personaly i will not be joining the services, mainly because its a different thing to what it was 40 years ago, and secondly becuase we are not under a major threat. Yet.
to sum up,  in my experience, ripsnort, your doing well, if i was your son i would respect your authority at the very least
SOUNDS LIKE YOU AND YOUR NIEGHBOUR ARE A CARBON COPY OF THE SIMPSONS AND NED FLANDERS, EXCEPT YOU BOTH HAVE BART AS A SON     :aok
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 11:56:08 AM by mechanic »
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline SOB

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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2004, 11:46:51 AM »
"PC load letter?  WTF does PC load letter mean?!"
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2004, 11:53:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Of course it could just be that his kid has ADDHD and yours don't...


I just used him as an example (Neighbors kid) Its a pretty common scenario when you work with kids alot (from the stand point of coaching).

And yeah, you guys nailed it, spending time, as much as you can, is key to parenthood.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 11:56:20 AM by Ripsnort »

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2004, 11:55:08 AM »
Sounds like you got those kids going right down the middle of the strike zone there Rip. Just make sure they're ready for a little chin music.  Life will produce a curve ball or a spitter now and then. Always make sure they are ahead on the count and keeping the bat off their shoulder, with 2 outs and the bags full the last thing you want is a fake farter.

Offline mora

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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2004, 11:56:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Of course it could just be that his kid has ADDHD and yours don't...


Have you ever taken a ADHD quiz ? 99% of people have those symptoms, IMHO it's pretty much a made up disease. I scored 47.