Some reactions from the arab world about Nick Berg's gruesome assassination

[txmx]

Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
This picture is pretty dumb, as the media has covered the murder of nick berg far more the past day then what was going on over in our pow camps.

As they should!

Lets se inocent man gets beheaded and you think a bunch of dumbarse Iraqi prisoners should get more airtime.

Yeah I can see where that is way more important.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by AKIron
You guys shouldn't be so smug about not voting. By not voting you have pretty much cast your vote for the candidate that wins.

And to thnk there are some people on this planet who fight and die to vote, and some of the clowns here fail to recognize their rights in this country.

Don't vote, then don't complain.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Westy
"mr westy is from the NE. mini jfk has him in the bag LOL"


 Yeah.  You see things no one else can Archie!

that's right MeatHead LOL

[Curval]

I heard today that Hezbulla called the killing "unMusilm" and condemned it.  I have no official source though...anyone else hear this?

I saw the part of the video today.  Made me sick.  I couldn't watch the whole thing.

[Toad]

Saudi, UAE and Jordan... yep, the three countries with the best relations with the US.

Still waiting to hear from the religious sector; wonder what they think about chanting "Allah Hu Akbar" while you behead a civilian.

I just wonder if they think Allah would approve.

WWAD?

[ravells]

Your information is correct, Curval. It's been on the news here a few times. Although Hizbollah (sp?) go on to say that this was an American plot to take the attention off the prisoner scandal

Ravs

[ravells]

Originally posted by Toad
Saudi, UAE and Jordan... yep, the three countries with the best relations with the US.

Still waiting to hear from the religious sector; wonder what they think about chanting "Allah Hu Akbar" while you behead a civilian.

I just wonder if they think Allah would approve.

WWAD?

It would be nice, Toad but at least this is a start.

Ravs

[storch]

I agree with Ravs, and the news of these muslims expressing condemnation for that barbarous act is encouraging to me.

[Erlkonig]

Originally posted by Toad
Saudi, UAE and Jordan... yep, the three countries with the best relations with the US.

Still waiting to hear from the religious sector; wonder what they think about chanting "Allah Hu Akbar" while you behead a civilian.

I just wonder if they think Allah would approve.

WWAD?

Perhaps it's just that you have to know where to look?

Authorities of the Sunni sect of Islam react to the incident here.

CAIRO, May 12 (IslamOnline.net) - Several scholars from Al-Azhar, the world's highest Sunni religious authority, condemned the decapitation of an American civilian by unknown people in Iraq, saying Islam stands against such acts.

"Islam respects the human being, dead or alive, and cutting off the American's head was an act of mutilation forbidden by Islam," Ibrahim Al-Fayoumi, a member of Al-Azhar's Islamic Research Academy, told IslamOnline.net.

He cited a number of verses from the holy Qur'an which affirm giving due respect to dead people regardless of their race or religion.

[...]

Mahmoud Emara, another member of the Academy, slammed the decapitation, saying it would harm the image of Islam.

"The mutilation even of enemies is rejected by Islam. A mistake could not justify another," he underlined.

[...]

Abdel-Rahman Al-Adawy, another member of the Islamic Research Academy, agreed.

"There is no basis in Islam to justify this, as Islam calls for justice and treating the prisoners with clemency," he said, noting that the occupation forces share a fair share of blame.

[...]

Mohamed Raafat Othman, an Academy member, said Islam deems mutilating the body of an enemy a "punishable" crime" because after all he is a human being.

Iraqi religious figures also had words of condemnation.

BAGHDAD, May 12 (IslamOnline.net) – Iraqis strongly condemned Wednesday, May 13, the beheading of an American citizen in Iraq by unknown people, saying it is against the true essence of Islam.

Dr Muthana Harith al-Dhari, Secretary General of Muslim Scholars Association, strongly denounced the killing, saying it runs counter to the teachings of Islam and "does disservice to our religion and our cause."

The Sunni scholar stressed this is a condemned operation whether carried out by Iraqis or non-Iraqis and whether the slain was a civilian or a military personnel.

"Even if he was a military personnel he should be treated as a prisoner who, according to Shari'ah, must not be killed," he told IslamOnline.net.

Deputy Head of the Islamic Party Iyaad Samarrai said the abhorrent treatment of Iraqi prisoners by  U.S. soldiers should never give an excuse for treating  U.S. prisoners the same way.

"This is absolutely wrong," he told IOL, asserting that "Islam does prohibit the killing or the maltreatment of prisoners."

Samarrai said such acts harm the interest of the Iraqi people and their cause to end the U.S.-led occupation.

[...]

Al-Dawa Party, led by Shiite Interim Governing Council member Ibrahim Al-Jafari, also condemned the decapitation of the American citizen in the strongest possible terms.

"Undoubtedly, we reject these acts, which run counter to the true essence of Islam and are totally unjustified," said Jawad Al-Malki, a member of the party’s politburo.

He said such acts tarnish the image of Islam and play into the hands of subjective media.

"The beheading of Berg is shocking, grisly, unjustified violence and an act of terrorism," he told IOL.

[Red Tail 444]

...Anyone notice the dude on the far right is wearing sneakers?


I think I'll defeinitely be lookig for more insurgents/terrorists' footwear from now on. I never noticed before...just seems odd to me.

And no, I have only seen vidcaps and don't plan on watching any part of the execution.

[Westy]

Yeah.

 But Erlkonig do you see anything specifically condeming the murder from the third cleric on the 88th step up the mineret in the 2nd mosque located in.......

 ....hold on let me get a very detailed map to find a very obscure, small arab village in let's say.... central  Iran....  the village would be.....mmmmhmmmm... let's see....

 Abyaneh!

 Got any news of anything proclaimed by any cleric of some significance from the village of Abyaneh in central Iran?

No!

See!!!

There's your proof that the rugheaded, heathen bastidges would remain "mum" and that you could hear a veritable pin drop listening for thier condemnations.



[mockery mode = off]

[Toad]

Keep trying, Westy.

You know exactly what needs to be said to the "man in the street" and by whom.

And it's still not happening.

However, it's a beginning. The Sunni piece is the best reaction to date. Now if Al Jazeera would just make it headline news, right? Oh, wait.. that's like waiting for the 88th cleric on the 19th step of the mosque or whatever, right?

BTW, I do read the Islamonline site when things are happening, but I don't read it every day.

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by Curval
I heard today that Hezbulla called the killing "unMusilm" and condemned it.  I have no official source though...anyone else hear this?

Hezbollah, Hamas Condemn Beheading

Saudi Officail Condemns Berg Beheading

By BARRY SCHWEID
AP Diplomatic Writer

May 13, 2004, 10:57 AM EDT

WASHINGTON -- Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the United States condemned as "criminal and inhuman" the decapitation in Iraq of American Nicholas Berg.

Speaking in Arabic on Wednesday to the Saudi media in Jiddah, the Saudi summer capital, Prince Bandar said the al-Zarqawi group, which took responsibility for the execution, was "a criminal, deviant and un-Islamic group allied with (Osama) bin Laden and the criminals of al-Qaida."

   

      
   
   

Bandar said the group had also killed Muslims and Arabs for no reason.

"It is not out of character for them to commit acts that violate the teachings of Islam, a noble religion that deplores such acts," Bandar said in response to questions from the Saudi media.

Bandar's remarks were distributed Thursday by the Saudi embassy in Washington. Arab leaders often have condemned terror acts against U.S. citizens and facilities. Making the statements in Arabic to Arabs, as Bandar did, gives the criticism added authority.

The ambassador also said there was no doubt the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by some U.S. military personnel was "despicable and criminal."

However, Bandar said, the Saudi media "should be aware that we do not make the same mistake of generalization that was made by the U.S. media and certain American politicians" in accusing all Saudis of terrorism because 15 of the 19 Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers were Saudis.

Those accusations were "untrue and unacceptable," the ambassador said. "That is why we should now condemn only those who committed these horrendous acts against Iraqi prisoners and make clear that they do not represent the majority of the U.S. military and certainly not the American people and their morality."

The beheading of Berg, 26, a Jewish-American from West Chester, Pa., was broadcast on an al-Qaida-linked Web site.

The final movements of the telecommunications businessman remain unclear as officials in Washington and Baghdad try to piece together how he crossed paths with a group of Islamic militants who savagely decapitated him in a video released Tuesday bearing the title "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi shown slaughtering an American."

Authorities in Baghdad denied Berg was held in U.S. custody before he disappeared in early April, despite claims to the contrary by his family. The authorities said he had been held by Iraqi police for about two weeks and questioned by FBI agents three times.

Copyright © 2004, The Associated Press

[Dowding]

Toad, your goal posts are practically on wheels. You called for condemnation of the act by Islamic states and it came. Westy has a point; you seem to have set your view in concrete and are now waiting for the facts to back it up. When they don't quite fulfill your world view in the way you wanted, you shift criteria by becoming more and more specific. With each step you move towards a straw man argument, which will probably end with your indignation at Yasser Arafat's lack of sympathy with Berg's fate. Have you considered whether or not Islam has a central papal figurehead?

[moot]

START
FWIW, I dunno about this, but I found it on what looks like a rw-libertarian site, not a lefty hang out. I've watched the longer video (see below), and sure enough the clock jumps, and the page turning thing is weird. I dunno, I am just sick of it all. I guess somewhere all this **** must have been anticipated. I guess PNACs vision of Pax Americana must have been considered worth all this mess. The view from behind their eyes must be something to see. Anyways, here's the **** I found.

1) extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor
regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis

2) CNN poll question: "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any
remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?" Bush has been reported to be
struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional
torture photos. Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly
prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national
security" issues for witholding additional materials.

3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody.

4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue
(compare with pictures at Guantanamo).

5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit). Either
he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and
all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to
change).

6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited. Goes from a) Berg
sitting in chair talking about family, to b) Berg sitting on floor with
hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost
motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

7) Audio clearly dubbed in.

8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on
the same page. Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what
page he's on?

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still
alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would
have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's
clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible
blood on it.

12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground. Although held down, Berg
would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly
dubbed in.

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information
about his family. Why? To elicit greater sympathy? Or to provide a
positive ID. FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his
identity". Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by
family.

FWIW, the full video is here:
ENDS