Author Topic: Westy, please straighten this clown out! (Read 1742 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #15 on:** May 18, 2004, 12:36:20 AM »

But what about the ARAB STREET!!! The ARAB STREET!!!

Lets ask Robert Fisk...

Yeager · « **Reply #16 on:** May 18, 2004, 12:46:00 AM »

The arab on the street was tickled pink seeing an american lose his head in such a brutal manner.

Nash · « **Reply #17 on:** May 18, 2004, 12:54:57 AM »

Oooh SHOCKER!

Erlkonig · « **Reply #18 on:** May 18, 2004, 02:58:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
By reading a wide variety of news online, particularly non-US sources.

Of course, you determine that the leading clerics have spoken out against it by the absence of any such reports in the media.

I welcome you to find where I have determined anything like that. You'd waste your time doing so, however, because I haven't.

Unlike you, I am able to see the issue as undetermined. Not in the least because I don't know who these leading clerics are (and I have the sneaking suspicion you don't, either) or what exactly "the Mosque" entails. But I can evaluate cases for and against, and the one you have provided - based entirely on an appeal to ignorance, is about as weak as they come. Of course, any positive evidence you might provide later, of the sort I mentioned in my previous post, would be welcome. I won't hold my breath, though.

AKIron · « **Reply #19 on:** May 18, 2004, 09:26:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Erlkonig
You think Powell was bull****ing?

I'll humor ya. I was referring to what you said as bull*****. There has been no other thread that "destroyed" the myth of Muslim silence. Imagine if you will the Muslim outrage if US personnel had brutally decapitated a bound prisoner on video instead of showing them naked. There has been and continues to be a deafening silence among Muslim leaders that speaks quite clearly to those with ears to hear.

Westy · « **Reply #20 on:** May 18, 2004, 10:17:11 AM »

".... a deafening silence ... that speaks quite clearly to those with ears to hear."

More like those with thier index fingers stuck in thier ears, thier heads buried in the sand or Rush playing on the radio so loud they can't hear anything else.
You, Toad and the other two or three folks knock yourselves out pretending that there's "deafening silence." It's your illusion and obviously anyone that shows otherwise is ignored or the goa posts moved.

"... couldn't find anything about it on google."

Trying to surf for news from Middle Eastern sources has been very difficult the past several weeks. I'm not one to yell "consipiracy" but it really does seem as though that is being purposefuly when I get constant "unable to connect due to network problems" errors on mutliple ISP's (work, home and inlaws)

AKIron · « **Reply #21 on:** May 18, 2004, 10:49:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Westy
".... a deafening silence ... that speaks quite clearly to those with ears to hear."

More like those with thier index fingers stuck in thier ears, thier heads buried in the sand or Rush playing on the radio so loud they can't hear anything else.
You, Toad and the other two or three folks knock yourselves out pretending that there's "deafening silence." It's your illusion and obviously anyone that shows otherwise is ignored or the goa posts moved.

"... couldn't find anything about it on google."

Trying to surf for news from Middle Eastern sources has been very difficult the past several weeks. I'm not one to yell "consipiracy" but it really does seem as though that is being purposefuly when I get constant "unable to connect due to network problems" errors on mutliple ISP's (work, home and inlaws)

At least the "two or three" of us are in good company with Colin Powell. Company I much prefer to that of someone with their head up Islam's posterior.

Westy · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2004, 11:00:34 AM »

"someone with their head up Islam's posterior."

Beside being a party puppet you're a clown too. You're so multifaceted.

Toad · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2004, 11:36:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Erlkonig
II don't know who these leading clerics are (and I have the sneaking suspicion you don't, either)

Start with of Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani in Iraq itself. He's reputedly the leader of the Shiites in Iraq.. Were he to clearly condemn this it would be a huge statement.

Then on to the senior clerics at the three most important Islamic shrines. Ka'ba at Mecca (al-Haram al-Makki al-Sharif);for Muslims, this mosque is the holiest spot on Earth. The second is the Mosque of the Prophet Muhammad in Ma dina, Saudi Arabia. Third, the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, the Aqsa Mosque (the Haram al-Sharif).

Hearing from these clerics would be the equivalent of the Pope speaking out against something to Catholics everywhere.

No far less likely but probably more important would be Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's condemnation of this act. He's THE authority in Iran, period. He's found time to say this:

Quote

"Addressing theological students, the Supreme Leader stressed that the world of Islam, in particular the Shiites along with the entire Iranian nation, will not tolerate the profanity committed by US military forces on Islam`s holy shrines in Iraqi cities. Denouncing the torture of Iraqi prisoners by US forces which have been exposed only recently, Ayatollah Khamenei referred to the US system as being an icon of hatred, oppression and indifference towards human dignity.

"Today, the US in Iraq and the occupying regime in Palestine are committing the most shameful acts in human history, the Supreme Leader stressed.

But I guess he just hasn't had time to condemn the beheading of Berg.

Are these guys simply to obscure for you? Are they the "8th Immam on the 33rd step of the 2nd minerat of the sunni mosque located on the central plains of Iran"?

If you think so, you really concerned yourself with who leads Islam in that area.

Erlkonig · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2004, 01:47:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
I'll humor ya. I was referring to what you said as bull*****. There has been no other thread that "destroyed" the myth of Muslim silence. Imagine if you will the Muslim outrage if US personnel had brutally decapitated a bound prisoner on video instead of showing them naked. There has been and continues to be a deafening silence among Muslim leaders that speaks quite clearly to those with ears to hear.

Maybe you missed the thread, but there are plenty of Arab Muslim political and religious authorities who went on the record in condemning the murder. To continue claim there is a "defening silence among Muslim leaders" is dishonest.

Toad · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2004, 02:27:59 PM »

No, there isn't.

At very best, there a few that might qualify as "authorities".

Erlkonig · « **Reply #26 on:** May 18, 2004, 02:55:34 PM »

There definately are, they're just not the ones you've chosen today to be acceptable authorities. That's all subject to further revision, of course.

Your attempt to change the subject from "no leading cleric has condemned this" to "well, but I haven't read anything from these guys" is duly noted.

Toad · « **Reply #27 on:** May 18, 2004, 03:00:35 PM »

Other than the Egyptian Mosque, the British Council and maybe one or two others, there isn't.

Your attempt to pretend that there is general condemnation of this act by Islamic "authorities" is duly noted.

Erlkonig · « **Reply #28 on:** May 18, 2004, 09:01:45 PM »

You are mistaken. There is no pretending going on - at least from this side of the discussion. Myself and others have presented evidence of the condemnation of the murder by mainstream Muslim authorities. There's not much we can do, however, if some prefer to continue running around with their eyes closed and their fingers in their ears because it doesn't help their agenda.

Toad · « **Reply #29 on:** May 18, 2004, 10:28:11 PM »

As I said, you've presented little at all. Which makes Powell's case and the case of all those who realize the Muslim "authorities" have been nearly mute.