Author Topic: Westy, please straighten this clown out!  (Read 1744 times)

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2004, 12:49:38 AM »
If ousting Hussein does nothing more than strike fear into every despotic dictator, as it apprarently has in at least two, then imo, mission accomplished.
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2004, 12:53:12 AM »
What if it ultimately demonstrates that you are powerless over there? Ever think of that?

Kind of like the saying "it's better to keep yer trap zipped than to say anything and remove all doubt." (whatever it is)

Well, yer now fully involved in a soliloquay and ya better make a damned good speech now or yer hooped.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2004, 12:53:57 AM »
Not what I'm saying.

As to Iraq, let's look at a few of the possible outcomes, simplified, of course.

1. They do achieve a resonable form of democracy over the next decade. (Yeah, decade. As someone pointed out, look at Korea. Takes time to do this stuff; but look at Korea now. Not too bad.)

A good thing, much better than before.


2. They fail to achieve a democracy and institute a theocracy on the order of Iran.

Well, no problemo, really unless they screw it up badly. If they just go along doing their thing, no one will really care. If they act up and get in the terrorism biz...... like Arnold, we'll probably be back.

3. They fall into another strongman dictatorship. We'll probably not allow that very long. Just a feeling, a guess. We'd probably be back, IMO.

So, we'll see, won't we? My feeling is they'll end up with a democratic government. There may well be some bloody Iraqi v Iraqi fighting before that happens though. I think some of what's going on now is in that vein. Various religious power struggles and even the possibility of some Kurd/Sunni/Shiite action as they struggle to hold the reins. Who really knows?

I believe this. The "Average Abdul" in the street knows there's a huge upside potential to having SH gone and some sort of elected government in his place. The question is will they be courageous enough to make a grab at a better future.

See, they're going to have to stand up for what's right. Sooner or later. Or else they get what they had most likely.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2004, 12:58:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
What if it ultimately demonstrates that you are powerless over there? Ever think of that?

Kind of like the saying "it's better to keep yer trap zipped than to say anything and remove all doubt." (whatever it is)

Well, yer now fully involved in a soliloquay and ya better make a damned good speech now or yer hooped.


I agree with ya. Which is why it pisses me off when my spineless countrymen moan, wail, and cry doom and despair at our efforts there. Much like Vietnam, only we can defeat ourselves.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2004, 12:59:07 AM »
I want to know what exactly is bad about the US action in Iraq? Can somone point out the negative aspects of the war in Iraq?

Offline Nash

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« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2004, 01:06:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
I believe this. The "Average Abdul" in the street knows there's a huge upside potential to having SH gone and some sort of elected government in his place. The question is will they be courageous enough to make a grab at a better future.

See, they're going to have to stand up for what's right. Sooner or later. Or else they get what they had most likely.


Lemme guess...  Your favorite movies are the Hobbit and the geeky kid from england with the glasses.

Man....

You conviently missed the 4th option. A vietnam-style retreat. Civil war, total chaos. Or an occupation that lasts umpteen years, costs untold amounts of lives and a kazillion dollars.

However right it is for some cleric to denounce some kid's death over there, it's fantasy-land.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2004, 01:10:58 AM »
I love taking an argument down to it's essence. Can somebody explain what is bad about the US invasion of Iraq?

Offline Nash

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« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2004, 01:15:36 AM »
Well not to be a bummer and all...

But what's bad about it is that you will lose.

What's worse is that people are gonna take notice.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2004, 01:17:58 AM »
Nash, god I love yah, but.... can you tell me what is bad so far about the invasion of Iraq?

Offline Nash

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« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2004, 01:19:28 AM »
Only if you can tell me what's good about it. :D

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2004, 01:20:24 AM »
Saddam Hussein is no longer in power, we already accomplished our goal. How can we lose?
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Offline Staga

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« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2004, 01:23:26 AM »
You're joking, right ?

Well in top of the list would be invading an independent country because of fabricated  accusations and occupying it.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2004, 01:24:41 AM »
That's nifty and all, but was that really the goal? And was it a good one?

If simply removing Hussein from power was the real ultimate goal, oh my!:eek:

Lotsa ways to skin a cat. Without gettin skinned in the process.

Well ya got him now, why aint the troops home? What's happenin'?

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2004, 01:26:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Only if you can tell me what's good about it. :D

can't answer?

I can tell you what is good....but I am not the one making an issue of it.

You first, then I promise an answer.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2004, 01:27:51 AM »
I just want one person to list what is bad about the invasion of Iraq.