Understanding Racism

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by lazs2
nielson... claiming that having a few miorities in you neigborhood makes you enlightened or "the least prejudiced guy on the BBS" is what got that comment from me.    I believe that those of us who live in much more diverse racial and economic areas like some of us in the U.S. would argue that you really don't know anything about it based on your limited  experiance in a socialist and immigrant regulated country...  

lazs

Just because there are more "white" people living around me that other ethnic groups does not automaticly make me more racist than others. I do see your point if you mean that there may be others on this bb that is as little racist as i am tho. Your surroundings does not have to dictate your emotions mr.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
here's a better way to understand racism.  Its OK If librals and minoritys do but unacceptable for conservatives and/or white people.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/09/25/smu.bake.sale.ap/

"(Affirmative Action)- It's not based on race. It's based on bringing a diverse community to a certain organization."

What a crock of F****** S***!

[lazs2]

jamusta... I was around when there were "colored" drinking fountains... they were on the way out without any affiramative action... most people ignored them long before that.

It could be argued that affirmative action caused more problems than it solved if it solved any...  I believe that letting things naturally evolve is better than forcing it especially in a blatantly unfair way like affirmatve action... it could be argued that affirmative action created more tension than it ever solved.

if white people control more of the wealth then... that is how it should be.   If people with ability are around they will rise... there is no stopping it and it would be foolish to do so.   for instance... it would be foolish to keep blacks out of basketball with legal but biggoted buiseness practices... some honky somewhere will realize that he can capitalize on the black ability and he will cause a killing in the game... soon... everyone will clamor for blacks on their team..

money matters are no different.   For certain cases you want a black lawyeer for instance but me personally...

for lawyers doctors and comedians I allways insist on jewish folk.

you chose who you want.

lazs

[Dead Man Flying]

So you people didn't hear about Colin Powell on "Meet the Press" then?  It's really interesting... some white chick deputy Press Secretary tried to put him under her oppressive thumb, but he kindly told the Man to BACK OFF.

I'm sure there's a thread about it around here somewhere.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by Tumor
"(Affirmative Action)- It's not based on race. It's based on bringing a diverse community to a certain organization."

What a crock of F****** S***!

Affirmative Action is not only about race, but race is how some wish to re-define it. Fact: White women are the greatest benefactors from AA, not racial minorities.

How many of your sporting teams are in the playoffs? The ones that are not are in the lottery - yet another form of AA.

The Michigan graduate students who filed a case regarding the six black students who were admitted ahead of them, made NO mention of the scores of white students whose scores were lower who also gained admittance. Take those six black students out of the mix, there's no gurantee they would have gotten in anyway.

Do you people really believe that every white student that competes in sports, in the orchestra, or other XC activity gets admitted to college solely based on test scores? Get real. To deny racism exists is about as stupid as believing that race comes into play in every situation.

But since it is the easiest thing to bring attention to, and it helps to create the false perception that race is more used as a predictor of socialstatus and class, it's what the detractors want to bring attention to the most.






had to delete the rest out, most of you wouldn't have wanted to read it anyway ...

[lazs2]

redtail... if scores are the admitting factor then to give entrance to people with lower scores is wrong.   It is unfair and unwise.

How do you know that one of those white guys with a high score wouldn't have been the inventor of a serum for say scycle cell anemia?   I do not see (white) women being given any special scoring preference in admissions so in this case it is indeed a racial only issue.  

I believe that in this case that schools are saying that black people are not smart enough to compete on an even keel.   I don't know if that is true but the AA people seem to think so.

lazs

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by lazs2
redtail... if scores are the admitting factor then to give entrance to people with lower scores is wrong.   It is unfair and unwise.

How do you know that one of those white guys with a high score wouldn't have been the inventor of a serum for say scycle cell anemia?   I do not see (white) women being given any special scoring preference in admissions so in this case it is indeed a racial only issue.  

I believe that in this case that schools are saying that black people are not smart enough to compete on an even keel.   I don't know if that is true but the AA people seem to think so.

lazs

So, you are admissions director ad Ole Miss, and you would admit a kid with a 4.0, ahead of a siimilar kid with a 3.9 but who throws like ELi Manning of course the kid with the arm's getting in, no doubt about it. In fact, that  kid might have a 2.3 and he's getting in, don't doubt it for a minute.

your 4.0 kid or the son of a government high roller, or who comes from a billionaire family? The son of the rich and powerful's getting in first, w/o question, and your son loses out. another winner is the son from a family who's gone to the same college for generations. has nothing to do with race, but in these cases, AA is never brought up.

Hell, here goes...our president you can be damn certain didn't get into Yale because of his grades, but for other reasons (see above)but a black student with a 4.0, would certainly be asked to justify his legitimacy for getting anything he's earned.

AA ensures equality and parity, without compromising standards. Those who claim that it does, are either only documenting AA policy abuses, or just use it as a tool to support white supremacist and male supremacist views. Given the opportunity, almost everyone can compete insimilar situations, and when used properly, AA proves that. Bush didnt have the best grades, but he got into yale, and he graduated.

Proof is in the pudding!

[jamusta]

Lazs... The majority will always win. The majority say affirmitave action is needed. Do I agree? Like I said depends on the situation. Times have changed. America is now ruled by money not beliefs. Racism is just as bad as it was just not as open. No doubt that there is reverse racism. People just look for it in the wrong places. Take for instance having all black colleges. That is not reverse racism. Its just a school where minorities have a better chance. Anyone can attend. But why would a white student want too. Would you go to Georgetown, Maryland or Howard?

[capt. apathy]

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
So, you are admissions director ad Ole Miss, and you would admit a kid with a 4.0, ahead of a similar kid with a 3.9 but who throws like ELi Manning of course the kid with the arm's getting in, no doubt about it. In fact, that  kid might have a 2.3 and he's getting in, don't doubt it for a minute.

your 4.0 kid or the son of a government high roller, or who comes from a billionaire family? The son of the rich and powerful getting in first, w/o question, and your son loses out. another winner is the son from a family who's gone to the same college for generations. has nothing to do with race, but in these cases, AA is never brought up.

Hell, here goes...our president you can be damn certain didn't get into Yale because of his grades, but for other reasons (see above)but a black student with a 4.0, would certainly be asked to justify his legitimacy for getting anything he's earned.

AA ensures equality and parity, without compromising standards. Those who claim that it does, are either only documenting AA policy abuses, or just use it as a tool to support white supremacist and male supremacist views. Given the opportunity, almost everyone can compete in similar situations, and when used properly, AA proves that. Bush didn't have the best grades, but he got into Yale, and he graduated.

Proof is in the pudding!

your examples are all correct, but here's the problem,  those privileged kids aren't the ones who's spots are going to get bumped to make room for the AA kid who gets special consideration,  it will be the white kid who doesn't have the advantages of wealthy families or political connection, the guy who had to bust his bellybutton all through school and who's family had to mortgage everything they owned to even have him considered.

  it will be at the expense of the white kids who face the same hardships as the black students, not leveling the playing field between blacks and privileged whites, but giving blacks special consideration over whites in their same situation while not effecting the privileged whites at all.  sometimes these advantages will even be given to a minority from a privileged family, just a little icing on the cake for the kid who already has an advantage over a white kid from a struggling family.

 these advantages (or penalties, depending on which side of the issue you are on) are being distributed solely on the bassis of race, thats racism, try and justify it however you want, it doesn't change what it is.


unfortunately racism does still exist, but you're not going to do much twards doing away with it, when those who complain loudest about it are all for it when it benefits them.

if racism is wrong and immoral (I think it is, but from other subjects I understand that some of you don't really believe in set morals, just whatever the courts are willing to allow), then it's wrong and immoral no matter what race the victim and offender are.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by lazs2
jamusta... I was around when there were "colored" drinking fountains... they were on the way out without any affiramative action... most people ignored them long before that.

It could be argued that affirmative action caused more problems than it solved if it solved any...  I believe that letting things naturally evolve is better than forcing it especially in a blatantly unfair way like affirmatve action... it could be argued that affirmative action created more tension than it ever solved.

if white people control more of the wealth then... that is how it should be.   If people with ability are around they will rise... there is no stopping it and it would be foolish to do so.   for instance... it would be foolish to keep blacks out of basketball with legal but biggoted buiseness practices... some honky somewhere will realize that he can capitalize on the black ability and he will cause a killing in the game... soon... everyone will clamor for blacks on their team..

money matters are no different.   For certain cases you want a black lawyeer for instance but me personally...

for lawyers doctors and comedians I allways insist on jewish folk.

you chose who you want.

lazs

Perfect, the subtleties of racist ideology, put the blacks to work in the NBA / NFL plantation but block their initiative to own a team...have Bill Cosby star in a televesion show but don't allow him to own a network...

historically...run an experiment that proves blacks are too unintlligent to flying advanced (or any type) of aircraft, or hold them in reserves and allow them to train in tanks, but insist they are incapable of suceeding in combat...

Good thing Patton had the wisdom to look beyond race when it came to winning the war (which was wrongly represented as white tankers in the film...wonder how that little tidbit of information got overlooked), or the bomber pilots that "requested" the 332nd to escort them to and from Berlin (admittedly, I wonder if they would have requested them had they known their escorts were of "inferior quality")

fact is blacks will have to prove and continue to prove we are just as capable as the anyone else, although when there's one person in a room, that one person has to be damn near perfect just to be considered good. White people largely don't have that burden. Most don't even consider this.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Perfect, the subtleties of racist ideology, put the blacks to work in the NBA / NFL plantation but block their initiative to own a team...have Bill Cosby star in a televesion show but don't allow him to own a network...

historically...run an experiment that proves blacks are too unintlligent to flying advanced (or any type) of aircraft, or hold them in reserves and allow them to train in tanks, but insist they are incapable of suceeding in combat...

Good thing Patton had the wisdom to look beyond race when it came to winning the war (which was wrongly represented as white tankers in the film...wonder how that little tidbit of information got overlooked), or the bomber pilots that "requested" the 332nd to escort them to and from Berlin (admittedly, I wonder if they would have requested them had they known their escorts were of "inferior quality")

fact is blacks will have to prove and continue to prove we are just as capable as the anyone else, although when there's one person in a room, that one person has to be damn near perfect just to be considered good. White people largely don't have that burden. Most don't even consider this.

What BS.......If  white guy applied to a black scholorship he could be denied because of his race.  That's discrimination......try and have a white scholarship fund and you get branded a skinhead.

Same thing with a white pride parade.  Minorities would protest it and violence would errupt because of wanting to celebrate your race and nothing else......Isnt feburary black history month?????


Afirmative action is discrimination.  You can bring up Yale class of 67 or sports scholorships and what not but students applying for regular enrollment get sorted out by RACE FIRST TEST SCORES SECOND to promote "diversity".  Now if diversaty is not one of my goals and I Hire more white guys than black guys or males to woman for that matter I could get sued for discrimintaion even though I'm doing nothing different than the colleges.

LOOK AT BET.....Black Entertainment Television....Do you really think the NAACP would TOLERATE the WPN....White Pride Network?  Same kind of programing based race and culture....but because it didnt deal with minority issues its DISCRIMINATION.

Here's another.  I, as a white guy, get bundled into one group...white....when in actuality I am "German American"  were's my group....were's my separation from the French Americans or the Italian Americans?

This whole deal of white people=rich evil people is crap


OH AND NO in my earlier comment I wasnt talking about minorities and welfare I was talking about Librals and welfare.

[midnight Target]

RedTail,

Your points are well made. I certainly couldn't improve on them, so I don't intend to try. I do agree with you on all points. Consider me your tired wingman on this one. I will say however, that there are a lot of guys on this board who are feeling the pinch of equality. They whine about the unfairness of AA, yet would never in a million years volunteer to change races with a black man.  They will fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo. Minds will not be changed on this BBS, regardless of your eloquence.

[GRUNHERZ]

Would your black sons swap places with a white man?

[midnight Target]

I've never asked them. There have been times in their lives when they were frustrated by discriminatory treatment. Maybe at those times they would have made that choice. I'll ask them someday.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by midnight Target
I've never asked them. There have been times in their lives when they were frustrated by discriminatory treatment. Maybe at those times they would have made that choice. I'll ask them someday.

Ask them today.

Because if you want to make some sort of point by saying whites would  "never in a million years volunteer to change races with a black man" then you better make sure that blacks would be eager to change races with a white man...

Beacuse that assumption, that blacks would want to switch races, is inherently racisit in and of itself.

And, no MT I'm not trolling and I'm not accusing you but I do feel what you said was troubling if thats the way you seem to think..