Bill Cosby on the need to speak 'English'

[txmx]

Originally posted by StSanta


Gotta know when to do and when to not do.

Thats easy to say but when you are sometimes talking about 15 year old young men LOL .... well you get the idea maturity and restraint  is the last thing on there minds.

[storch]

Originally posted by txmx
SO in other words you cant answer my question?

   he doesn't get it

[txmx]

Originally posted by storch
 he doesn't get it

It is said to be a sin to call some one a fool.
But what the heck FOOL.

[storch]

Originally posted by SoulzofAW3
 @ this entire thread.  As a young black male, I find this thread ridiculous.  I respect Bill Cosby for what he has accomplished, but as far as I'm concerned he could have saved those comments that he made about the need to speak English.  Believe it or not, most blacks don't speak Ebonics.  I'll just give you guys a run down on how most black people feel about topics like things like this.

1.  We absolutely hate it when an African American celebrity gets on television to give these "Let's uplift our people" speeches about how blacks need to stop speaking in Ebonics and get off welfare, etc.  Truth be told, most of us are already doing that.  They just get in the national spotlight and make it seem as if we're all in the ghetto, which leads to topics and discussions like this among Caucasians.

2. Even the blacks that do speak slang or Ebonics are not all ignorant.  Slang is just a way for people to communicate with each other in a way that's comfortable to us.  Just because I speak slang dosen't mean that I have a gun in my jacket and I'm ready to rob someone.  Think about it, most of you guys speak slang also.  Ex,  "I just HO'd a noob over HQ".  That's slang also.  Does that mean you're a street person or ignorant?  Not at all.  It's just our way of communicating with each other when flying.  Think about that the next time you're ready to label someone because of the way that they speak.

3.  The most important thing!  Stop watching so much television and thinking that all blacks behave a certain way.  These rappers rap about females and drugs because that's how they make their money.  I don't condone it at all, but that's why they're called ENTERTAINERS.  Just because someone raps about selling drugs dosen't mean that they're going to the corner to sell drugs right after they leave the recording studio.


Carry on..........

Bingo. very well thought out.  

This may also be applied to "Hispanics"  (a term that annoys me very much)  Hispanics come from many different cultures.  Though some are similar most are vastly different.  

If you hear me on vox you would not know that I am a naturalized American Citizen and that I was born in Cuba.  If you came and hung out with us when we switched to speaking spanish as we often do it would blow your mind.  None of the people I associate with have an accent.  Our parents do though.  

Come to Miami and see what the "Hispanics" have done with a town that rolled up the sidewalks at 2200 on the weekends in 1960.  

None of my Black friends sound as you guys seem to think either.  Did you know that 25% of the Black population now live in the suburbs, are very concerned with properly educating their children and earn in excess of $75,000.00 annually?  

Black and "Hispanic" families don't all live in the hood or barrio, never have and never will.

[capt. apathy]

This may also be applied to "Hispanics" (a term that annoys me very much)

caught a great sound-bite the other morning.  this reporter was doing some feel-good piece about different cultures getting along together and was interviewing some kids(5-6 yr old) @ school.

so she asks this one little boy "are you Hispanic"

"no, I'm a Mexican"


outta the mouths of babes and all that.

here she was doing the PC thing of trying to over complicate the issue and it just took the honesty of a little kid to cut through the crap.

[Gunslinger]

I work with a guy from peurto rico and he's allways corrected me that Mexicans and Central americans ARE NOT HISPANICS.....Hispanics stem from the island of Hispaniola.....wich if you check your map consists fo haiti and dominican republic.

I'm not sure if that's true or were Latino comes from cause I associate that with the term latin....wich now that I think about it I'm not sure were that comes from

Just a little FYI not sure if its true or not.

[storch]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I work with a guy from peurto rico and he's allways corrected me that Mexicans and Central americans ARE NOT HISPANICS.....Hispanics stem from the island of Hispaniola.....wich if you check your map consists fo haiti and dominican republic.

I'm not sure if that's true or were Latino comes from cause I associate that with the term latin....wich now that I think about it I'm not sure were that comes from

Just a little FYI not sure if its true or not.

OH OH if that's true than I am at least part Hispanic.  My grandmother was Haitian.  Live and learn.

[capt. apathy]

I'm not sure if it's true or not either, but what is true is this is all way more complicated than it needs to be.

what is so offensive about calling Mexicans, Mexicans?  or Nicaraguans, Nicaraguans? or whatever, whatever?

[storch]

Nothing at all, that's what we do.

De que pueblo eres? (where are you from)  Yo soy Cubano.  (I'm Cuban.)  Then from that point out they may refer to me as "el Cubanito" and so on.  If they forget my name a simple Oye Cuba. (hey Cuba) will get my attention, as well as the attention of 1500 other guys in earshot on some construction sites.

[lazs2]

guys... if you heard me talking to another gearhead or gun aficianado... you might not understand half of what I say..  I doubt you would feel threatened tho.

When I was a biker you wouldn't understand half of what we said but you would have felt threatened.  

To pretend that there is no difference is naive.

like I said... I make no right or wrong on the deal but simply point out that it is the way it is.

lazs

[storch]

Just so you know, we chased the tough bikers out.  now they hang out two counties to the North of us.  Not really too intimidated by anyone.  And I'm not trying to start any Internet toughyness either, just pointing something out.  They felt uncomfortable and left.

[jamusta]

Trying to explain things about race to people on this BBS can be very frustrating. When you try to tell the truth it gets labeled as an excuse. Still I will try....

I grew up in South Central LA. Gang affliated. Gang file about 4 pages long. Been arrested for almost everything under the sun. From inciting a riot to counterfeit. I am the product of being brought up by a single mom who couldnt be there at all times. In most cases I was raised by the streets. Fortunately she was very strict when it came to my education. Although I was getting into alot of trouble I mantained a 3.4 gpa in high school. I believe the education I received was below standard but I made the best of it. Point is.....Parenting is the biggest factor. You cannot rely on the inner city educational system.

I went to join the Marines at the age of 17. It was time to get my life together but being poor and my lack of discipline ruled out college. My recruiters didnt give me a chance because of my appearance. Pants sagging earrings the whole works. They told me they were floored when I scored an 86 on the ASVAB. Point is...Dont judge a book by its cover.

For alot of the inner city kids there arent very many choices. Lack of parenting. The substandard education. The lack of discipline and the feeling of hopelessness turn these kids towards the direction of false idols such as rappers. The kids today cant differentiate between reality and what they see on TV or hear on the radio.... I hate to say it but alot of my fellow black americans still have the slave mentality.

[moot]

everywhere I travel, it's the same, I see people that've never known anything else than the place they grew up in, the TV they watched and radio they heard etc.
Unless you follow the right education, you're going to limit your perception down to nearly nothing, big handicap when necessary to deal with foreign thoughts.

I go to France, they mock americans for this.  To the USA, they mock France for that.  Go to an Arabic hangout, they mock yet another country.  Or form, or language, or culture, whatever.  Every country I've stayed in has their ways and in the end they're all just upright animals wearing clothes on this big ball of dirt.

Things'd be better if people had more exposition to the rest of the world, or the basics at least, sufficient logic and knowledge to dissociate irrational from rational thought, all the time, correctly.

You don't have to give up culture and tradition etc, but at least recognize art(in any form) for what it is: beautiful and futile.


If you see a bunch of people speaking dutch and ask a question in japanese, do you need to be einstein to recognize your message is not getting across???

[lazs2]

storch... not trying to argue but... 70"s bikers were a tiny bit different in the bay area of California than they are today about anywhere.

jamusta..  In order to maintain your average you had to work at it.    I imagine that you don't speak ebonics or slang much when you are trying to get ahead.   Cosby was right.   I believe that I am right and that if you are not one of the sheep and you work hard you will get ahead.   I know how hard it is to get your life in order after making a shambles out of it but you prove that it can be done.  I had a similar experiance.

lazs

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by jamusta
Trying to explain things about race to people on this BBS can be very frustrating. When you try to tell the truth it gets labeled as an excuse. Still I will try....

I grew up in South Central LA. Gang affliated. Gang file about 4 pages long. Been arrested for almost everything under the sun. From inciting a riot to counterfeit. I am the product of being brought up by a single mom who couldnt be there at all times. In most cases I was raised by the streets. Fortunately she was very strict when it came to my education. Although I was getting into alot of trouble I mantained a 3.4 gpa in high school. I believe the education I received was below standard but I made the best of it. Point is.....Parenting is the biggest factor. You cannot rely on the inner city educational system.

I went to join the Marines at the age of 17. It was time to get my life together but being poor and my lack of discipline ruled out college. My recruiters didnt give me a chance because of my appearance. Pants sagging earrings the whole works. They told me they were floored when I scored an 86 on the ASVAB. Point is...Dont judge a book by its cover.

For alot of the inner city kids there arent very many choices. Lack of parenting. The substandard education. The lack of discipline and the feeling of hopelessness turn these kids towards the direction of false idols such as rappers. The kids today cant differentiate between reality and what they see on TV or hear on the radio.... I hate to say it but alot of my fellow black americans still have the slave mentality.

And that seems exactly what Cosby said. Your mother did her best and foacuded on at least sometrhing she could influence in you.

How do you interpret "slave mentality?"

The way I interpret "slave mentality" is as an attitude lacking in personal responsibility. Because thats excatly what slavery is, the complete removal of your own right to be responsible for your mind and body.

The extension of that today is what I perceve to be a very strong desire among mainstream black "leaders" to minimize the impact internal factors of black communities have on the problems and solutions to those problems facing black communties as opposed to the impact of external factors. The problems of poeverty and crime and  poor educational performance of many black communities are caused by both internal and external factors. I dont think its productive to deny the imact of either.

The response to cosby's call fpr personal action, responsibility and accountabiliaty struck me as typical of that mentality.