Dora experts ...

[GODO]

Originally posted by Kweassa
What about the aux tanks of our AH 190A-8?
 Shouldn't it be just FWD/AFT tanks with the aux tanks filled with C3 injection?

All the tanks were filled with C3. Some A8s had the AUX tank removed to save weight, some others have it replaced by 18.7 gal GM-1 bottle.

[Batz]

the "AUX" tank on the a8 provided the C3 injection (Erhöhte Notleistung).

If you follow the D9 discussions at UBI, you see where folks claim the "early" D9 seems faster then the "late" d9 with mw50. The "early version" in FB has C3 injection and by looking at the charts on the site linked above it would appear that "early" D9 should be faster.

[Kweassa]

Then it's very confusing, as our AH/AH2 Fw190A-8 clearly has normal B4 fuel used for driving the engine filled up in the aux tanks.

 Yes the aux tank does run out quickly, but according to what you're saying, it sounds like our Fw190A-8 should not have the aux tank at all..?

 Why wasn't this suggested to Pyro then?

[GODO]

Our Aux tank for A8 and F8 is not used for injection, it is simply a 25.3 gals fuel tank (fwd is 51 gals).

Once the BMW 801D2 was cleared for C3 fuel, why to use it only for injection from the AUX tank?

[Kweassa]

So what you're saying is;

1) there's a Fw190A-8 with fwd/aft/aux fuel

2) there's a Fw190A-8 with fwd/aft fuel and C3 injection in aux

3) there's a Fw190A-8 cleared for C-3

 ...

 Is that it?

 Then does that mean our AH 190A-8 is in the first category?

 So, if our A-8 isn't using the C-3 injection, then it means it's probably using only the normal dry WEP boost by method of higher manifold pressure..?

 Then I'd presume that also means our A-8 should not be able to fly 10mins of WEP, and limited to 3~5 min durations like other planes that do not use liquid injections.

 Either way, something seems to be wrong or inconsistent about our A-8. If our's is the C-3 injected version, then it should have only fwd/aft tanks. If it's not, it shouldn't run that long with WEP.

 Looks like some verification is needed, since AH2 is around the corner, and if we want to suggest something to be changed, we have to do it fast.

[GODO]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Then does that mean our AH 190A-8 is in the first category?

Yes as well as our 190F8.

On the other hand, our 190A8 is 10 mph faster than 190A5 at sea level.

[Batz]

Funked has or had the A8 manual translated into engllish.

He posted there were 3 methods of wep

1. the throttle was just moved to a higher setting

2. C3 injection

3. GM1

GM1 was rare...

C3 was the standard.

I haven't tested our A8 so I dunno know where it falls, however being heavier then the a5 it is also faster at those alts where you would expect if it had C3 injection, same with the F8.

From bury's sire heres how he described C3 injection for the D9:

2) Sonder - Notleistung - Special Emergency

I believe this power setting is similar in principle to the Fw190A using "Erhöhte Notleistung" with C3 injection. That is, bleeding of the airline of the blower to induce a petrol surge and use it as a charge cooler. The setting was the same as in the A-8. There was a button, or lever, on the control panel to open the valve. To summarize, it was a petrol injection in the eye of the blower. It had the effect of allowing increased boost by its charge-cooling effect.  It could only be used at full speed and 3,250 rpm. It was usable for 10 minutes, This power curve is listed with C3 fuel. I do not yet have a power curve to verify engine output in this configuration but it would be greater than 2100PS based on the speed and climb curves.
After the use of this Special Emergency power, no form of Emergency power could be used for at least five minutes

If the "AUX" tank on the D9 now holds mw50 it wouldnt be listed as a selectable tank (as is in AH2) like it is on the A8 and F8.

[Batz]

Kweassa,

Butch has posted on here that the 190s got C3 fuel as a priority. I would hope the AH A8 has C3, same with the D9 and F8

[Batz]

Godo IIRC the AUX tank had the bleed line to the blower.

[GScholz]

We have the B4+MW50 Dora. The C3 Dora did not use MW50 AFAIK.

[Batz]

You are right I believe butch said late in the war C3 for the BMWs was a priority..

The jumo used B4 + mw 50 like most of the db's.......

[Crumpp]

The first dora delievered to the RLM went to III/JG54.  They lost 5 A/C on the ferry flight  They were not well recieved. In Deitmarr Hermann's book on the FW-190D development is mention of the memo sent to the RLM requesting direct liason authority with the company due to the imperative need to reach 1900 hp and improve low altitude performance.

In September of 1944 Junker's TAM (technical field service)visited III/JG 54 and installed an emergency kit which raised boost pressure and increased output from 1750 to 1900 up to 5000 meters.  At the same time authorization to use take off power (1750) was extended to 30 minutes and Combat Power (1620) was extended to unlimited.

Junkers maintained meticulous records of their monthly TAM visit's to the JG's which survived the war. By October '44 III/JG54 had 68 Dora's onhand, 53 hand been converted to the over-boost system and 1 had been delivered with MW-50.  

The Dora did use B4 fuel.  The MW-50 boosted 190D's where not available in any real quantity until well into '45.  In December '44 Only 60 MW-50 equipped Doras were operational in the Jagdwaffe.
The fuel tankage For the dora consist's of 525 Liters of B4 fuel in two seperate tanks located center line fwd and aft of the cockpit.  The pilot's seat bisect's the tanks were they meet.  In addition if the 85 liter boost tank is not installed a 115 liter Aux tank can be installed in the space just  aft of the rear fuel tank.

I see nothing that points to a "C3" Dora with the Jumo 213A engine.

Crumpp

[Batz]

Read the site linked above,

The first  production Dora's soon received a field modification of a non-standard, low pressure, MW-50 installation "Oldenburg system" and    a system referred to as "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Rüstatz" which increased  power output of the Jumo 213A from 1750 to 1900PS without an additional boosting agent such as MW-50 or GM-1 up until the first of 1945 when production high pressure MW-50 kits, compressor modifications and C3 fuel were prevelant in D-9's.

This power curve is listed with C3 fuel. I do not yet have a power curve to verify engine output in this configuration but it would be greater than 2100PS based on the speed and climb curves.

But its clear from the quick speed tests that the AH D9 is running on B4 + Mw 50.

Heres a good thread on the D9 power settings:

http://p069.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm9.showMessage?topicID=17.topic

[Batz]

Heres a few more interesting threads


http://p069.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm9.showMessage?topicID=19.topic

http://p069.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm9.showMessage?topicID=161.topic


Thread on mw50 on the A-series

http://p069.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm9.showMessage?topicID=66.topic

[Crumpp]

Those thread change nothing to what I posted.  

I think you are confusing test data from FW-190V15, V18-21, V25-27, V29-V33.  All of these used the DB-603 series engines (FW-190C) and C3 fuel. This comes from the 1943 list.  The V numbers stay the same but several of these are re-engined in the 1944 list.  Most of the series is redesignated FW-190D upon the abandonment of the C model.  Tank tested several different models of inline engines.

I have found no evidence of any Jumo 213 equipped 190 using C3 fuel and  No production Fw-190D-9's used it that I can see either.  In fact you can clearly see in a picture of the second FW-190D-9 to roll off the porduction lines (WNr 210 002) the big triangular sticker above the fuel inlet clearly labeled "B4" in bold black letters.  In fact the tank inlet is labeled "115L" so it is for the auxillery tank.  The Dora's "boost" was not C3 injection although it worked on the same principal of injection into the intake to cool the cylinders (which all the boost systems used by the LW except GM-1 used).  I'll bet it was "B4" injection...LOL

Crumpp