Author Topic: LW exodus hurts The Rumble  (Read 1385 times)

Offline Hristo

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« on: June 06, 2001, 05:22:00 AM »
We could really use the best LW sticks in The Rumble. Spme of them have already applied. Sadly, LW exodus seems to hurt very much.

Only 9./JG54 has lost 6 pilots lately:

NathBDP
Jekyll
Hazed
RAM
Kirin
Glasses

There will be many more missing until next month, I'm afraid.

So, why does it seem only Luftwaffe leaves ? (I can already hear AKxyz, laz# and cheerleaders replying. Don't bother.)

Offline Animal

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2001, 06:04:00 AM »
Luftwobbles leave because they dont like the way the game was desgined for them.
Seems like anything they dont like is a huge issue. Anything bad about the plane they have, is a mistake of HTC. They dont like the way the MA plays out, and how it is designed. They know how it played out from the begining, so I understand that they only played far enough believing HTC would change the game to their demands.

I dont like LW planes very much, mostly because I dont like their guns, and most my favorite planes turn out to be allied ones. Some people just dunt understand that maybe HTC aint wrong on the plane modelling; maybe those planes were more successful in real life because there were many diferent variables (fear of death, situational awareness, etc). Some of them do understand this, but they still complain about the strategic aspect of the game, acks, whatever, until they can take it no more, and leave.

I wonder why would anyone join a game wich has "flaws" that REALLY piss them off? I really woulnt subscribe to a game I am NOT going to enjoy.

Cya in WWIIO many of you LW guys. I already play that game. And if you are moving there in hopes of finding a better flight model, well, hehehe, get ready for disapointment.

Offline Duckwing6

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2001, 06:04:00 AM »
because they are the most whineing luft- weenies  

cheers
DW6

Offline Creamo

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2001, 06:10:00 AM »
You might have a point there. OR... this could be a sneaky change of propoganda.

As it was once said (over and over and over)the LW were at a disadvantage because of lack of late war aircraft.

Now your saying now that they have most late war LW fighters (G10,Dora, 152, minus a freakin jet), its lack of skilled pilots?!

Hmmmm... someone might buy it.


Offline Swager

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2001, 06:24:00 AM »
You can call it whining or complaining, but do not take the leaving of long time pilots like Glasses, Kirin, and Hazed lightly.  For it effects the whole simulation.  It may be transparent at first, but it will be felt sooner or later.

The one thing I have learned over the years is that the difference between complaining and expressing concern is ....who's doing it!

IF you agree to the issue then the person is expressing concern, if you don't agree then the person is complaining.  The best way to avoid calling someone a whiner or complainer is to keep and open mind and try not to say anything stupid.

I am not good enough to determine if the flight models and gun issues are real for LW aircraft. But there are some hardcore LW sim pilots leaving, and this can only be detrimental to the simulation as a whole.  As a community, AH must realize this or things are only bound to get worse.

If you are able, maybe it is something everyone should think about!  

Have a nice day!  

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Offline Seeker

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2001, 06:31:00 AM »
The reason they're leaving is that they're not so much pilots as role players.

They're not in love with flying the 109, they're in love with being Hartman. And they've been unable to recreate the Luftwaffe and click their heels in a flight sim. They're hoping they'll have more luck (and more hero worship) in a game where they think the virtual Stormtroopers will Sieg! as they fly overhead in  honourable defence of the father land.

Q. If Galland had the choice of the 109 or the Spit, would he paint crosses on the Spit and fly it, or would he squeel like a leetle gurl to Udet that he wasn't going to fly the 109 'til it's guns shot like Hispano's?

Offline Creamo

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2001, 06:35:00 AM »
If you think the AH community is bound to get worse over a few guys quitting, I really am trying to find a reason why.

So why is that?

When they are all back in 3 weeks (or less probably), nothing will have changed except the MA will have cool new terrains.  

SeaWulfe

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2001, 06:37:00 AM »
Swager- If you continuously press an issue, using comparing plane x to plane y, lack of data, and "I think"s to convince us something is wrong, it is not voicing a concern or anything other than a complaint, squeak or a whine.

If you focus on one aspect of a game, you are inevitably going to grow tired of it and pray to all that is holy that the next simulation will be "the all encompassing totally kick bellybutton and gives the LW planes a fighting chance because of historical matchups", then when it turns out to not be. Your campaign starts up and everyone has to endure the hardships of being annoyed to death about something that will not be changed.

Happened in WB, and it's happening in here. Well it happened in WB for several YEARS until iEN threw up the allies vs axis arena.

So lets say they threw up the exact same setup here as in WB. Instead of "My Fw can't outzoom the N1K2 like it should" it will be "My Fw can't... against the allied planes"

You don't have to believe me, just point your browser to agw and enjoy!

This is a joke, you think we should care your squad mates are leaving? I was in a German squad in WB for a year, I quit WB because it was 2$/hr not because we didn't have a fighting chance.

Hell I flew the 109G6/R6 against SpitVs and had fun, you guys just expect to win every damn engagement.

Sorry that ain't happening.
-SW
ps: Hristo, mentioning my squad in your post makes me grow a big rubbery one... no maybe not... but I had you really turned on there for a minute didn't I? LimpWristed LeatherWearing LispWaffle.


Offline Pepe

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2001, 06:37:00 AM »
Wether this is a temporary situation or is a permanent one we do not know as of now.

In any case, I think is something to raise concern if you just think a bit. Of course, that unless you like to see an arena without LW planes.

Just my 0.02

Pepe

[This message has been edited by Pepe (edited 06-06-2001).]

Offline MANDOBLE

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2001, 06:44:00 AM »
Seeker, IMO, you are in a galaxy far far away from the point.
And, about the german planes using hispanos, well, they had the hispano designs, captured factories and captured real guns since the beginning of the war. But for some reason, instead using that gun, they prefer to desing new ones like 108 or 103.

SeaWulfe

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2001, 06:45:00 AM »
Pepe, I fly LW planes quite a bit.

The difference between me and the "hardcore LispWaffles"?

I fly 'em, I don't whine about 'em.
-SW
ps: I'm a superior pilot in an inferior plane fighting against superior planes with inferior dweebs in them!!! (LispWaffle motto)

Offline fd ski

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2001, 06:51:00 AM »
There are three types of LW pilots in simulators:

- the initial facination types
- old hands
- those who never quite progressed from point 1 to 2.

The first type - almost everyone belonged to in one way or the other. The fascination with 190 is something normal as you start in the world if sims. You fly 109s and 190s, you play for the underdog, in time, most grow out of it. I've been there in my fighter duel days - 190 was one of my favorite planes.

Old hands - those who flew LW from the start and stayed LW - practiced their skills required to do well in that particular plane set ( 109/190 ) and with their skill and class earned the respect of all other simers - for those of WB background - i think JG14 would be a perfect example.
Those guys will fly 109s/190s with extreeme skill without a need to justify their failures on game's misgivings. Which brings us to the third type....

Those pilots of first type who never quite progressed to the old hands status. There are scored of them all around. For the most part they can be spotted easily cause they are extreemly vocal about their displasure with many things in whichever game you are.
Some of them are excellent pilots ( RAM ? Nath ) some of them at best average, but they lose in the same way - they are never shot down because they did something wrong - they were shut down because of something wrong/missing in the modeling of the aircraft in the game. They endlessly argue their point, flooding the boards. That essencially prevents them from ever becoming respected pilot ( other then in the eyes of those like himself ).

I was truly sad when Kirin left. He had a class. I hope he will be left. What does suprise me is that someone of his character surrounds himself with such a long list of whiners/complainers. Just look at some "and screw you guys" good-bye posts recently.... I'm very happy to see those guys go.

Hristo - if you're short of pilots - let me know and i'll fly a LW bird, that is if i'm considered good enough.


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Offline Nash

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2001, 07:02:00 AM »
Merely speaking on the Rumble... don't worry Hristo, I'm sure we can figure something out.

Some of the old LW flyers did leave, which is unfortunate. I'm not sure however that this greatly impacts the the overall numbers in terms of ratio of LW to the rest. We know of 5 or 6 leaving. There might be something to be said for the fact that those 5 or 6 have been around a loooong time and are from the same squad.

I'm just not ready to chalk up this recent LW "exodus" as reflective of all AH LW flyers in general.

But it's too bad, because we really don't seem to have alot of LW squads here in AH. I have looked to fill out the numbers of LW flyers and it seems that most of them are either not in a squad or they belong to a mixed squad. They are harder to identify.

Still, we'll get a balance worked out by Rumble day. No worries.

Offline Hristo

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2001, 07:07:00 AM »
LW in AH has all sorts of pilots. Some of us whined more, some just flew more.

Personally, I don't see too many gunnery/FM problems in AH. Yes, I still fly H2H (vulchees can confirm it). 190 is a challenging ride, rolls awesome (not like WB) and is a nice plane overall. With no Tempest and C-Hog, it would dominate. 109 is very good, proper E fights can leave even Tempest hang in the air at the mercy of MK 108.

But some pilots who left never complained. It is them I worry about. To see Hazed and Kirin leave with almost no warning surprised me alot. And several others like Jekyll, Wilbus and Glasses. Whiners, you say ? Go look yourself in the mirror.

Please don't call them frustrated whiners. Generalizing that all people who fly LW are whiners and their absence is no loss is bad. Why didn't Allied pilots leave in mass numbers ?

To SeaWulfe:
Better start honing 109/190 skills more. If everything keeps up this way, you will have to fly enemy planes for AH Allied arena.  And whine for the LW, of course.
Your and posts of your buddies remind me on tasteless Nath gravedance.

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 06-06-2001).]

Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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LW exodus hurts The Rumble
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2001, 07:17:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hristo:

So, why does it seem only Luftwaffe leaves ?


Like StSanta mentioned in another thread, he plays AH to create an illusion of being a WW2 fighter pilot.  For him, this is a role game.  And I'm sure he's not the only one. Some of the guys who've been flying online sims for a long time, have the same kind of an approach. I guess I fall in to this category as well.  

If we look at historically minded AH players, be that Allied or Axis, we can see a few trends:  They pick a historical squad, follow strict chain of command structures (although it might seem like utter chaos), fly their historical planes and usually try to get some realistic feeling into their flying. They want a hard and demanding environment where the pilots' flying and tactical skills make the difference - not the ability to game the game. These pilots are not usually big fans of main arena furballing, but have the most fun in historical missions and special events.

These pilots know that they must make some compromises when flying in the AH MA:  there are no historical planesets - hogs and F6F's fight eachother while a finnish G-2 sweeps by chasing a Dora into the flak cloud of a CV.  The terrains have no resemblance to the real world. Each plane is fitted with a radar and navigation system that is better than what an AWACS has in the real world.  Aces High is a game and I'm sure these guys fully understand the need for these helps and aids for the casual gamer in MA.  The Main Arena should be, and is, a place where even the less experienced player can quickly get up to speed and into the game.

Especially in Aces High, where the emphasis is clearly on late war planes, the historically minded DonQuijotes will grow tired of the constant La7s, Doras and P51Ds. A few years of the same old same old MA without any fundamental changes will finally get to some of these people.  And so it seems.

Now, I'm not saying that a historical arena is the answer or that Aces High in its current form is bad. Currently, I'm enjoying Aces High more than ever.  In some (most?) cases all this goes down to AH burnout.  Four hours a day online will drive any man crazy, thats for sure.  A week or two of AH-leave might be in order in that case. This applies to all pilots, not just Luftwobbles.

Now, why do only LW pilots leave?  Well, if you think of LW and then look at Aces High, you will see that AH is quite far from Luftwffe nirvana. Especially with the current islands terrain, the game is heavily weighted towards the Pacific Theater.  There are CV's, carrier planes and japanese planes that didn't play any part in the European Theater. Most of the ETO stuff is late war, with little or no early war planes.  Like most of you can guess, the favourite era of most of the Luftwobbles is early war, from the Spanish Civil War to late 1942. This is when the planes were relatively slow and aircraft designs as the resulting tactical differences were pronounced. Up to that point the LW had the upper hand. In 1943 the Americans stepped into Europe and thats when the s#%¤ hit the fan on the western front, so to speak.  

Eastern front is also a topic that most LW people find interesting, I think.  For me, as a Finn, it is definately the most interesting part of WW2.  And I'm happy to see HTC has put great effort into bringing the Ost Front to our screens.    But here as well, the same rule applies as in the western european front: early war is more appealing to the LW pilot.  In 1943 the tide changed as the russians put their huge resources into serious use.

I'm not sure how big a role WW2OL plays in all the LW pilots leaving. It is true that for some of the historically minded players, WW2OL offers a "better" playing ground from a LW point of view.  But with a very limited planeset and emphasis on ground war, I'm not sure if the flight sim enthusiasts will find themselves at home there. In my opinion, Aces High has a lot more to offer in the air combat department as a whole.  That said, I'm sure that the competition will definately be a good thing and hopefully drive HTC to develop the early war aspects of the game even more enthusiastically.  

Best regards,

Camo  

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