Frightening E-mail

[Rino]

Originally posted by ravells
Bit like Bush saying...you're either with the Republicans or with the terrorists, no?

Ravs

     In response to the largest terrorist attack on this continent,
so no..I think you're not even close.  Of course, you've never
been a big fan of the US..on this BBS at least.

[VOR]

Originally posted by ravells
Bit like Bush saying...you're either with the Republicans or with the terrorists, no?

Ravs

Ravs, I doubt Bush thinks this any more than you or I do. This war isn't and hasn't been about partisanship. You're exaggerating a little.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Capt. Pork
Our policy towards Stem Cell research does indeed suck, but how would you suggest to suppress this guy from saying what he does? And moreover, what laws would you pass regarding the suppression of other people like him? Where would you draw the lines?

Do you agree that this guy needs to relax and think about some important things in a prison cell for a couple of years? I think he needs it. The line is drawn straight: if he propagates fascist ideas - he must be locked up. Agitation for physical elimination of a certain group of people selected by nationality (or any other condition) is fascist propaganda.

Any person agitating for war or fascism must be isolated.

[ravells]

Originally posted by Rino
In response to the largest terrorist attack on this continent,
so no..I think you're not even close.  Of course, you've never
been a big fan of the US..on this BBS at least.

What I said was a little toungue in cheek, Rino, VOR seems to have picked it up.

I like the US and have many American friends, but (in common with many Americans) I don't think your current president is the best you've ever produced.

Ravs

[lada]

Originally posted by Boroda
Dr. Mohammed is a professor of Islamic Studies at the University of San Diego. He received his Ph.D. at the University of Riyadh in Saudi Arabia and is an Imam schooled in the Wahabi-Sunni tradition of Islam.

Saudi version of Islam is a shame for the rest of Moslim world. In Russia their biggest enemies are traditional Moslims. Wahabits are probably the only "tradition" that really declares war on infidels.

can not confirm it but from what i know, Sunni are pretty orthodox and much less tolerant that Shiaa.
For example Sunni man can marry Shiaa girl, but Shiaa man can not marry Sunni girl.

Diferent between Shiaa and Sunni is mainly in line of prophets whitch they respect. Can remember exactly, but Shiaa respect much more of them.

Anyway SA is just porked kingdom of pathetic monarchs

[DrDea]

Originally posted by lazs2
since our entire medical capitalist system is so bad... why worry if we have stem cell research or not... certainly our effort would be minimal in any case compared to the contributions of the countries with vastly superior socialized medical systems.

lazs

  Thats only because they moved there research facilities closer together.

[lazs2]

" like the US and have many American friends, but (in common with many Americans) I don't think your current president is the best you've ever produced.

Ravs"

ravs... you could say that at any time in our history and be accurate.   That doesn't really say anything.  

 I myself don't think he is not the best we have ever produced but.... he is better than 50% of past democrats we have had as presidents and miles ahead of any democrat in the recent past or near future.  

No see... that gives it some perspective...

lazs

[ravells]

Hi Lazs,


ravs... you could say that at any time in our history and be accurate. That doesn't really say anything.

Lol, I was politely trying to say that I think Mr Bush is an utter dork. You may think that he's been a better pres than 50% of democrats, but these are all matters of opinion and not fact, so nobody is objectively right or wrong.

Although how you can rate him as a better president than some future democrat who has not yet even been given the chance to perform, I don't know.

Ravs

p.s. enjoying the Lott book, btw.  

Ravs

[Capt. Pork]

Originally posted by Boroda
Do you agree that this guy needs to relax and think about some important things in a prison cell for a couple of years? I think he needs it. The line is drawn straight: if he propagates fascist ideas - he must be locked up. Agitation for physical elimination of a certain group of people selected by nationality (or any other condition) is fascist propaganda.

Any person agitating for war or fascism must be isolated.

No, Boroda, I don't agree with you. Our constitution protects free speech so long as it does not directly cause a disruptive of dangerous situation(yelling fire in the middle of a crowded movie theater). I tend to agree with this interpretation of the 1st amendment. Yes, it has seen different interpretation when involving children(censorship of profanity and/or pornographic material), as well as in public schools(speeches given before the student body, or articles written in school publications).

But to silence some guy because he spews his opinions in public forum cannot and should not be considered a solution so long as his words are not proven to compell people to break the law. So far, there is no such proof.

Personally, I don't like what he's saying. I also don't like seeing the socialist-liberals in San Fran prancing around, calling us a nation of capitolist pig/fascist-murderers--behavior which, incidentally, is far more disruptive than a questionable lecture given to a seated audience. Nor do I enjoy the concept of KKK rallies. Nevertheless, in order to keep my rights, I must live with others keeping theirs. We, as intelligent, or semi-intelligent beings, have the capacity to make decisions regarding the words and opinions we see and hear propogated every day. The 1st ammendment takes into account our capacity as rational-thinking beings, and most of us welcome it. To supress anyone and everyone who speaks unpopular words takes the right to hear and decide out of the hands of the individual and places it firmly in the hands of the government.

Personally, given the USSR's history of suppression, I cannot believe you can even suggest such a course of action. How many poets, novelists, satirists, dramatists and songwriters did your 'Man of Steel' turn into anonymous ashes during his reign? How many did he send to the gulags to rot? Are you seriously trying to advocate a policy which puts an entire nation  on track to doing the same thing? Where do you draw the lines between free thought, unpopular opinion and subversive propeganda?

America is far from perfect but on the topic of human rights, it's head, shoulders, waist, knees and feet above anything the USSR ever achieved.

Sometimes, Boroda, it scares me to think how many of you Soviets there still are.

[Boroda]

Capt. Pork, the question of "human rights" is an artificial invention, mostly used in political games. Like the "human rights" part of Helsinki declaration of 1975. Brzhezinsky later admitted that Western powers included it into final declaration only to get another instrument of political pressure over USSR, and they didn't give a flying f#@k about Soviet Jews who were "not allowed" to leave for Israel...

If you remember - Soviet press always screamed about "human rights violations" in the West.

It's up to you, Americans, if you want this bloody extremists to speak about "elimination of all Jews". For me - he deserves to be locked up. There are some basic values that are important regardless to current concept of "human rights" according to Party line. Preaching for physical elimination of a certain national/cultural/social group can not be tolerated. As you can understand - the law I mentioned makes things like anti-trotskist hysteria of the 30s impossible.

Also I believe that "freedom of speech" is the last thing that you have to worry about. First you have to be sure that no prettythanghole will go kill Jews/Arabs/Chechens in the streets.

And, if you remember, American history of "free speech" and "human rights" is far from perfect. McCarthyism, things like a "Hollywood Ten" case, Rosenbergs, etc. If you could sentence people to prison only for refusing to answer if they were Communists or not - this "preacher" should be jailed immediately.

Just my 5 kopeykas...

[Capt. Pork]

Where in this e-mail or anywhere in this guy's lectures did he preach, in specific terms, the annihilation of any race? I want to see it in writing.

My previous question stands, where do you draw the lines between free-thought, unpopular opinion and subversive propeganda.

Moreover, what sort of reaction do you think his imprisonment will elicit from the press, and what sort of reaction will the press elicit from the public? How many others like him will come out of the woodwork to fill the void you created?

I'm probably extremely naive and ignorant, but it's my belief that ideas are best fought with other ideas. Once they're put into physical action, then we should start thinking about physical reaction.

Let him say what he's going to say. More likely than not, people will make the same decision that most on this board did and dismiss him.

Maya Kopeyka

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by 2Slow
Doesn't seem to be in practice.

Neither is "Thou Shall Not Kill."

[ravells]

Originally posted by Boroda


If you remember - Soviet press always screamed about "human rights violations" in the West.

 

Oh come on Boroda...it's a game of comparatives. If America's human rights record has been bad, then the USSR's record was abysmal, or worse.  How can you possibly say that the Soviet press was free to report what it wanted to in those times?

You talk a lot of sense sometimes, but I think your pursuit of the argument kills your good points when you say things like this.

Ravs

[-MZ-]

Originally posted by ravells
As for the KKK, they arn't religious really, are they?

No, they are extremely religious.

[ravells]

They just think they are.

How do they deal with the fact that the 'son of god' had olive skin?

Ravs