Author Topic: Cutting Aid to Israel (Read 5364 times)

lada · « **Reply #90 on:** June 23, 2004, 01:21:19 PM »

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Originally posted by Pongo
Sorry I wasted my time in the middle east.

where have you been in ME ?

Capt. Pork · « **Reply #91 on:** June 23, 2004, 01:29:33 PM »

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Originally posted by lada
where have you been in ME ?

This question could be catastrophically misconstrued.

Toad · « **Reply #92 on:** June 23, 2004, 01:32:57 PM »

With the Military? Around every hotspot.

As a civilian, I didn't go there.

Pongo · « **Reply #93 on:** June 23, 2004, 01:59:01 PM »

" salute Canada and the rest for doing what they can. But the continual implication that the US doesn't contribute is very tiresome. We do quite a lot, in fact we do more; we do what others can't or won't.
"

not as tiresome as your continued fabrication that I said any such thing. In fact I have repeatedly noted and defended the Camp David accords in these very threads on this very board.
So your talking out your back side agian. Your the person that has degenerated others contributions. Not me.

And if we are being honest Toad. Your country bought Egypt out of thier alliance to the USSR. Was it a great move..better for all involved? Typicall of US relations with third world countries? Yes. But very much in the US best interest. MAP loans that get funneled back to General Dynamics and Raytheon. Just dont start crying on me about how much the US contributes and how little respect they get.

I have been to Isreal, Egypt and Cypress.

Toad · « **Reply #94 on:** June 23, 2004, 06:22:15 PM »

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Originally posted by Pongo
[B ]MAP loans that get funneled back to General Dynamics and Raytheon. Just dont start crying on me about how much the US contributes and how little respect they get.
[/B]

This is the typical "Marshall Plan" dissing. "You only did for yourselves." This is your "respect" I guess.

Really? I guess then it wouldn't have been in the best interests of General Dynamics, Raytheon and the US taxpayer to spend the Egyptian MAP 1.3 BILLION per year since 1979 on upgrading our own forces? We could by F-22's, body armor or even better pay for our lower ranks maybe?

After, GD and Raytheon would have still got the money and the US taxpayer would be funding protection for our own forces.

That'd been the smarter way to go right?

Instead we spent it all to convince Egypt that recognizing Israel was the right thing to do to end the endless wars. But that was only in the "best interest of the US" right? I mean the Egyptians and Israelis and the rest of the world didn't want to see that happen, now did they?

BTW, I've been very close to all those countries and lots more in that region. Albeit it was at 30K, so I guess I didn't serve at all, did I?

Pongo · « **Reply #95 on:** June 23, 2004, 06:36:42 PM »

I didnt say you served or didnt serve. Its your repeatedly that has said others have done nothing..have your forgoten your pills or something?

And I do respect it. But I see it for what it is and you evidently dont. Its not like you spent 1.3 billion a year to educate the masses of Eqypt and feed the poor and all the things your hero George babbles about. You gave it to them so they could buy weapons from you to prop up thier regime. Like you prop up all regimes that meet your needs, regardless of thier civil rights record or thier democratic bent.

Toad · « **Reply #96 on:** June 23, 2004, 07:09:22 PM »

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Originally posted by Pongo
Its your repeatedly that has said others have done nothing..have your forgoten your pills or something?

Show me those quotes of mine, please. Or are you, in your inimitable phrasing, "talking out your back side agian"?

Quote

You gave it to them so they could buy weapons from you to prop up thier regime. Like you prop up all regimes that meet your needs, regardless of thier civil rights record or thier democratic bent.

If you're the student of the 78 peace accord, I suggest you go back and revisit that historic moment.

IIRC, Egypt wouldn't do the deal without the MAP. BTW, do you remember how long after the accord Sadat paid the price for peace with Israel?

So we were just "propping up Egypt"? Not trying to get a peace that would last in the Middle East?

Is that your new diss?

Pongo · « **Reply #97 on:** June 23, 2004, 11:40:58 PM »

No. It was a good deal. It was as much about bringing Eqypt under the US wing as it was bringing peace between them.
I never said there was anything wrong with that, its probably one of the major reasons its been so sucessful. But it is what it is Toad.
I have walked the ground where he was killed.

lada · « **Reply #98 on:** June 24, 2004, 08:02:13 AM »

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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
This question could be catastrophically misconstrued.

LOL

Toad · « **Reply #99 on:** June 24, 2004, 08:56:28 AM »

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Originally posted by Pongo
It was as much about bringing Eqypt under the US wing as it was bringing peace between them.

Please show ANY kind of documented support you can find for that statement.

Unless it's just "IMO".

Bluedog · « **Reply #100 on:** June 24, 2004, 10:00:47 AM »

Flyboy, do you mind if I ask how old you are?
I hope not, 'cause I just did;)
Your statement that you will join/be drafted soon makes me think you are quite young....late teens, early twenties.

The reason I ask is simply that if you are indeed that young, I find your calmly presented arguments, and seeming grasp on the real world situation in your corner of the Globe to be rather reassuring.
The middle east sure could use a few more level headed, calm people .

Pongo · « **Reply #101 on:** June 24, 2004, 10:01:54 AM »

Well said.

Pongo · « **Reply #102 on:** June 24, 2004, 10:03:55 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Please show ANY kind of documented support you can find for that statement.

Unless it's just "IMO".

Its self evident. You have the primary Soviet surrogate in the region switching sides and being under the US wing now for nearly 30 years. Cant believe your debating it or offended by it.

Toad · « **Reply #103 on:** June 24, 2004, 11:29:05 AM »

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Originally posted by Pongo
It was as much about bringing Eqypt under the US wing as it was bringing peace between them.

Apparently, in your opinion, the US was motivated equally by a desire to bring Egypt into the US sphere of influence as it was to find a way to end the continual Arab/Israeli wars.

You can't substantiate this other than to say it is "self-evident".

That's merely your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I'll disagree. I think the US, particularly Carter was motivated PRIMARILY to find a peaceful solution to the continual wars. A byproduct of that effort was to bring Egypt out of the Soviet sphere of influence.

But that's my "self-evident" opinion.

Sikboy · « **Reply #104 on:** June 24, 2004, 12:02:03 PM »

That's a very interesting question... It was so "win win" in the view of the times that I find it difficult to assign more importance (from a policy point) between the two benefits.

1. Stabilizing a region of great international importance (ok... oil).
2. Poaching Soviet client states.

I think you're both equally right. It's self evident

-Sik