Author Topic: Flight & Combat Basics  (Read 3140 times)

Offline Soda

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Flight & Combat Basics
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2004, 01:31:18 PM »
A few thoughts to consider.  Try and find a "reasonable" fight, one where you have some friendly support and it's not 50 vs 1.  Look around the map a bit, don't just take off where a wave of red cons are inbound and try to stop them.  Too many new pilots try to do too much when they start, first fly in relatively "relaxed" situations where you aren't completely defensive the second your wheels leave the ground.

Secondly, try and get a feeling for when you are in over your head and back off a bit.  You don't need to charge right into a mass of enemies, see if you can't seperate one or two of them and fight those.  1 on 1 combat will be tough enough, 1 on 4 will be impossible.  Those feeling off "danger" will serve you well later, it's all in reading the situation quickly and knowing what you should be doing in response.

Finally, pick an aircraft suited to your abilities and style.  Sure, the Corsair may look cool but if you can barely keep it airborne without crashing then it's a bit pointless to try and fight in it.  Lots of people pick Spitfires to start, they tend to be a good choice.  They also suit newer pilots who spend a lot of time turning, moreso than many they will learn then should.

Gunnery is just partially practice and partially situation.  As experience grows you will get a feel for the gunnery and you also tend to produce "easier" shots for yourself.  by that I mean, early on you will likely find a lot of high angle/speed, long distance shots, tough for anyone.  Later you tend to get closer, lower angle shots that are much easier to make.

Hope that helps...

Offline MaddogJoe

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« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2004, 07:14:55 PM »
Listen to Soda, get in a plane and die !!! Its the best teaching tool there is. Pick ONE ride and stick with it till it calls for you in your dreams!! Even if its the Nik or La7!! Pick one ride you can handle well now and make it your own, don't let others tell you its a dweeb ride or what ever. You here to have fun, and if you fly a plane you like you'll have more fun!

Check out the Mafia site http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/index.html It may not have as much, or more detailed info as the aces site, but it does have some tips for new flyers written in plain english. Just click on the "Aces High Info" link and go from there. There are tip on how to get close in a fight, as well as tips on how to figure how much you have to lead a target to hit it.

Hang in there!! It get better with the more practice you put in!  Good Luck!

Offline TweetyBird

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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2004, 07:54:07 PM »
Good site, MDJoe!

Offline Spitter

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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2004, 03:00:12 PM »
Let me second what Slap said, jump back in your ride and get your oscar handed to you again...and again...and again.

Having been personally shot down by Slap several times :D, I can tell you that is the best learning experience.   Make sure you are rolling film before your engagements.  Watch the angles from thier perspective on the film.  See how they are positioning thier planes long before you ever come close to the merge, and watch how often they look around.

There is a lot to learn in this game.  I probably spent the better part of 2 months flying offline, just practicing turning on the edge of a stall in different aircraft, practicing spin recovery, landing and taking off, bombing, gunnery...you name it.  

I am now doing the same thing with AH2.  I had to temporarily suspend my account for personal reasons, so I am getting a feel for the flight model in AH2, and tweaking my rather old computer to get decent frame rates.

Remember, it's a game, and it should be fun.  Don't let yourself get frustrated.  Just laugh, give the other guy a , and get back up there.

Also, check with some squadrons.  I learned a lot from my squadmates, and having someone watching out for you can help you live longer and enjoy your time online much more.

Cheers,
Spitter, aka ~~~Fate~~~ Squadron target drone.

Offline Adogg

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welcome...
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2004, 08:27:21 AM »
...to the bottom of the food chain.

Give it a few weeks. You'll suck less.

A few months and suddenly you'll be bouncing other newbies.

A year and suddenly you realize that there are MANY MANY more pilots better than you but that there are also quite a few that will show you their six at inopportune moments offering you the chance to perforate their egoes.

Shane and Soda have excellent reputations as mentors.

Cardinal rule: Avoid "le rope-a-dope"

Good Luck and Have Fun:D

Offline fracca

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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2004, 08:59:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
If it's a fair fight you've done something wrong...


Hehe, that about says it all. Im new to AHII as well, although not at all new to flight sims in general, but i feel youre pain lol. Soon as you get used to the diffrences in flight models though its all gravy. All these guys have put up great hints and tips to get you up and running, but when it comes to actual combat Schaden hit the nail on the head. Getting into a fight with another plane when your both level pegging is all very honourable, but getting into a fight when your 5000 feet above your prey is where the meal ticket comes from.

Must admit AHII is the only flight sim ive ever been in where ive seen players complaining about the enemy being 'alt-monkeys' and basically ridiculing someone entering a furball from 15k, however dont be put off by this, and dont be tempted to go swanning about at ground level. In flight sims and in real life, altitude is something you can rarely have too much of, and as a new pilot, make damn sure your the highest plane in the sky. If your new to sims in general your gunnery will be probably be awful to begin with anyway, so diving down on a sleeping enemy, spraying at a range of less than 200, and then climbing back up to the safety of the blue yonder is by far your best bet. Dont be tempted to get into a turning dogfight unless someone is onto you with more energy (catching up), by entering a knife-fight your lowering yourself to their level, and 99% of the time, regardess of what plane you/they are flying, it will be the best pilot that wins the day. If your a noob, it aint going to be you.

Also, while bombers often seem like big heavy easy pickings for fighter jocks, they have a major sting in the tail, especially with the drones in AHII. Attempting to waltz in on a B17s six and sit there for 30seconds while you calmly shoot them down one by one simply isnt going to happen. The same rules as fighters apply, and you need to get up high, dive in, shoot, and get back out again, with any luck while the pilots/gunners asleep. If you dont get them on the first pass, you can bet your last dollar that theyre going to be waiting for you if you try another pass as well, so even more speed, caution and 'slicing' is needed. As i said, they may seem pretty vulnerable and easy tgt's since they need escorts, but remem a B17 has 13 different gun positions to your one, and in a formation you could have up to 9-12 of them shooting at you at once. Thats an awful lot of lead coming in your direction.

All that junk above means simply make sure you are the higher plane, if your not, dont be ashamed to turn away and run until you are. Try and fly in groups, where theyres ten of your team and two of theirs, thatll give you plenty of oppertunitys to practice diving and bouncing. All this may sound like 'cheating', but its how combat is won, and as i pointed out, while a one-on-one at level alt is all very honourable when you walk away the victor, your majority of kills will come from when you were the plane with more energy (speed/alt), or your tgt was concentrating on someone else. And dont listen to anyone who calls you a wuss or a rookie cos youre 10k above them, mooning at them out your back window.

Last point, all sims have their 'nasty' fighters, in IL2 it was the Yak, (actually the I-16 before it was fixed), WWIIOL its the 109F, and in AHII it seems to be the N1K, (bearing in mind im a noob as well, so this is just what ive seen). If you see one, and have the oppertunity, run your bellybutton away and leave him to the more experianced boys and girls. He'll truss you up good and proper if you give him the chance.

Quote
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
If it's a fair fight you've done something wrong...
Colonic

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2004, 12:32:03 PM »
fracca ...

All good advise if this was real life, but its not. There is no shame in dieing in this game. The more scraps/fights one gets into, the better fighter they become. Thats the beauty of this game ... you can get killed, but you can then immediately get back into the cockpit and try again.

Following your recipe, will not make him a better fighter, but rather a runner IMHO. When he does get caught, he will not last more than 1 turn.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2004, 12:45:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fracca
As i said, they may seem pretty vulnerable and easy tgt's since they need escorts, but remem a B17 has 13 different gun positions to your one, and in a formation you could have up to 9-12 of them shooting at you at once. Thats an awful lot of lead coming in your direction.

 


Man , that is why they kill me so much, they actually have 7 more gun positions per plane than I was counting on........could have sworn they only had a chin turret, lower bal turret, top turret, tail gun, and 2 waist gunner slots.........:D
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Xjazz

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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2004, 12:51:45 PM »
Hi Kidjel,

and wellcome to the world of air combat.

Very first bookmark The http://www.netaces.org site. It based to the AH1 but info is still more or less valid.

As said before, learn basic skill in offline:
- Take offs/landings
- Snap view-system inside out
- Basic gunnery vs droons
- Basic Flight Maneuvers

Then check these links. (edit) IGNORE the old help file!!!
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91824&highlight=hints

Before your first combat , check the link
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fletcher183/axioms.html

:) Have a fun

Ps. Allways remember... Its only a game
« Last Edit: July 10, 2004, 12:54:16 PM by Xjazz »

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2004, 02:24:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
fracca ...

All good advise if this was real life, but its not. There is no shame in dieing in this game. The more scraps/fights one gets into, the better fighter they become. Thats the beauty of this game ... you can get killed, but you can then immediately get back into the cockpit and try again.

Following your recipe, will not make him a better fighter, but rather a runner IMHO. When he does get caught, he will not last more than 1 turn.


If you you play this or other online sims to enable you to have some small idea of what r/l air combat was like 60 years ago then you should try to stay alive whilst ensuring your enemy does not.

If you look on this or other flight sims as a merely another sort of quake where you kill then die, kill/die/kill/die ad infinitum then you fall into a different group to myself.

It is up to you which you prefer, Johnnie Johnson was hit once in 4 years of combat, getting 30 odd kills in the process, 1944 a 190 pinged his wing root with a 20mm - otherwise not a scratch.

Being able to flop around at zero feet in a Spit 9 or Niki might be very impressive in the DA however in the MA or CT what matters more is the ability to create a situation where you have all the advantages and your opponents or opponents have none.

Acm are over rated, as long as you are able to manage the basics and are able to visualise what all the a/c around you are doing and can kill 95% of the time at 450 yards you'll be a master.

Flying in MA or on the IL2 servers then becomes an intellectual exercise in which you manipulate your enemy and events which lead to you landing 5 or so kills every time you take off.

Fly something very fast with big guns.......

Failing that join the chest beaters you think everyone is scared of them as they fly in their Spit 9's and complain that no-one will fight them - they don't even grasp the fact that they are being fought against - except it's on someone else's terms and that person is going to kill them then fly home.

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2004, 04:38:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
If you you play this or other online sims to enable you to have some small idea of what r/l air combat was like 60 years ago then you should try to stay alive whilst ensuring your enemy does not.

If you look on this or other flight sims as a merely another sort of quake where you kill then die, kill/die/kill/die ad infinitum then you fall into a different group to myself.

It is up to you which you prefer, Johnnie Johnson was hit once in 4 years of combat, getting 30 odd kills in the process, 1944 a 190 pinged his wing root with a 20mm - otherwise not a scratch.

Being able to flop around at zero feet in a Spit 9 or Niki might be very impressive in the DA however in the MA or CT what matters more is the ability to create a situation where you have all the advantages and your opponents or opponents have none.

Acm are over rated, as long as you are able to manage the basics and are able to visualise what all the a/c around you are doing and can kill 95% of the time at 450 yards you'll be a master.

Flying in MA or on the IL2 servers then becomes an intellectual exercise in which you manipulate your enemy and events which lead to you landing 5 or so kills every time you take off.

Fly something very fast with big guns.......

Failing that join the chest beaters you think everyone is scared of them as they fly in their Spit 9's and complain that no-one will fight them - they don't even grasp the fact that they are being fought against - except it's on someone else's terms and that person is going to kill them then fly home.


I can BnZ with the best of them in my P-38, but when I get caught in situation while in that mode, I can also fight. Had I just been a BnZ guy all along, I can guarantee that I too would be dead in 1 turn had I not learned to knife fight (Turn&Burn).

So I can play on both sides of the fence and its not due to running, hiding, and being overly concerned about death. Lets get real here ... everytime I take a plane up, I have all intentions of returning to base, but at the same time, I will not run from a fight because I might DIE ... oh my goodness.

Funny you should mention the Spit 9 or any plane for that fact. I could care less what anybody flys, and I don't turn away from a fight because of what plane I encounter. They all blow up equally. You just have to adjust the fight accordingly, unless of course you find it prudent to run cause you might DIE.

I don't have time to be playing Johnny Johnson or any other aces for that fact. I want to engage - fight and whatever the outcome, it doesn't really matter ... its the fight that counts.

My point is ... if you want to play the Johnny Johnson game ... you will, in Aces High, still have to die alot to get to that caliber ... so you might as well jump in feet first and go for it. Once you have achieved a certain level of expertise, then play Johnny Johnson. I don't subscribe to teaching people to be timid and runners.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2004, 04:56:32 PM »
Hate to break the news to you but for most people with a grasp on reality are not really "afraid" of either you or the fact that their imaginary cartoon aeroplane might be shot down in an imaginary battle.

Some prefer a different challenge to air quake. Pays your money and takes your choice. Allow people to make up their own minds rather than forcing your own narrow minded views on others.

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2004, 07:08:23 PM »
Guys, lets help him with the building blocks, and get out of the gate a running and not stumbling ( well we all stumbled in the beginning)
once he gets some seat/virtual cockpit time in ( minimum 6 months) then he can decide which side of the fence he wants to be on.
but by all means, if you start out running from a fight you will be long pressed to learn from any mistakes because you will not be learning anything except how to run. To learn you must mix it up and keep at it , you will lose and lose alot, but when the day comes you can have a sweaty palms dogfite you verses 2, and come out the victor then you know you have achieved that next step up the ladder, or that next knot in the rope you are climbing to success.............keep with it and you will get there Kidjel..and the best of luck to you;)
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TweetyBird

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« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2004, 07:46:36 PM »
Speaking from personal experience only, the one thing that has GREATLY increased my enjoyment of Air Combat Sims, is finding a squad that I fit in with. Lord knows, I've found myself in many I didn't seem to fit (mostly having to do with hobbies and interest). Its a long process of learning, and it just makes it 10 times more fun if you're doing it with people you like to fly with. That doesn't mean to jump at the first squad invite. But the sooner you can find a group you like hanging with the more fun the whole learning experience will be. Its a lot like school :D The time line is there (for some its shorter for others longer) and the whole game is hikeing down that timeline. Its more fun in the company of others.

BTW, ty Dniff

Offline GooseAW

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« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2004, 08:22:30 PM »
Not sure if this has been suggested or not but...

The guys in my squad who are newer seem to get alot from riding in my plane with me just to observe. Yes you can ride along in a fighter too. You won't see everything that is happening but you can compare what your instinct tells you to do with what the more experienced pilot you're riding with does. This will help you figure out the "whys and why nots".

Good luck!:aok