Author Topic: Vets speak out about Kerry (Read 4473 times)

Nash · « **Reply #105 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:30:19 PM »

When Bush got backed into a corner wrt to bogus WMD claims, he tried to bamboozle everyone with all sorts of alternative reasons for the invasion.

Same thing is starting to play out in micro-form in this thread.

Way to stick to your guns GScholz.

NUKE · « **Reply #106 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:32:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nash
When Bush got backed into a corner wrt to bogus WMD claims, he tried to bamboozle everyone with all sorts of alternative reasons for the invasion.

Same thing is starting to play out in micro-form in this thread.

Way to stick to your guns GScholz.

I myself have never made a stand on WMD being in Iraq at the time of the invasion.

Shuckins · « **Reply #107 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:32:41 PM »

He's sticking to his guns alright Nash...but he's firing blanks.

Nash · « **Reply #108 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:33:25 PM »

Doesn't look that way... Just looks like the rest of ya have decided to fire at different targets.

Crumpp · « **Reply #109 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:34:21 PM »

Nash,

I wasn't saying Oh yeah well what would you do? I am interested in his opinion. I wasn't around when you were debating this.

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So you think the chemicals just leaked out of all 17 rounds? Even the Poles and US authorities say they were from the 1980s and useless.

Yes I do OR it has been removed to be stored elsewhere.

Do you guys think that we would just show up and WMD would fall at our feet? Frankly I believe Saddam has them still hidden. IMO the whole WMD thing is a sideshow to the strategic and tactical necessity of Removing Saddam from the equation at hand.

Crumpp

Nash · « **Reply #110 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:37:17 PM »

What do you mean by sideshow?

That it was never the reason? Or that it was a byproduct of?

Shuckins · « **Reply #111 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:37:22 PM »

G-Scholz,

Do you seriously believe that, even though hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Shi'ite Muslim opponents of Saddam were massacred that the survivors did not deserve our help because they did not fight hard enough to gain their freedom on their own?

I guess you don't want to be your brother's keeper.

NUKE · « **Reply #112 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:47:59 PM »

Nite buddy, take care.

Shuckins · « **Reply #113 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:50:58 PM »

How many times would he have to use it before it mattered to you?

One incident alone justifies his removal from power.

They're digging up a LOT of bodies over there...according to independent news and relief agencies covering the process.

Do you not agree that a mass murderer NEEDS to be removed from power? Should we debate endlessly with self-serving diplomats from other nations while people die?

You once castigated me in another thread on this subject for defending action in Iraq and not caring what was happening to Christian tribesmen in Sudan, even though that was NOT the topic of that thread. I firmly believe that U.N. military intervention in Sudan is fully justified. What actions would you recommend in the event that the United Nations does nothing about that situation? Would you support a nation taking unilateral military action to prevent the slaughter?

Lizking · « **Reply #114 on:** July 06, 2004, 09:53:15 PM »

If Bush wasn't getting hammered by the Dem's so hard, he would have already had troops in the Sudan, and screw the UN again.

Crumpp · « **Reply #115 on:** July 06, 2004, 10:25:27 PM »

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And ... besides the Halabja (a small town on the border with Iran) battle where the Kurds took up arms and fought alongside the Iranian army ... when did the Iraqis use WMD against the Kurds?

And this is relevant How? Point is he USED WMD.

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I repeat my question: Except for the BATTLE of Halabja, when did the Iraqis use WMD against the Kurds?

Guess he needs to do it multiple times to be convincing huh?

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Who turned out to be right? Who were "played like a like well worn fiddle"?

It's far from over and this has yet to be proved. I applaud Bush for having the balls to not "HOPE" it wasn't true and acting. I thank GOD we don't have idiots who would "hope" it's not a threat out there. It's just a few old rockets, just like the others evidence we have found...

Sorry been busy and I missed this the first time.

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US criminal in its actions.

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Well, that is good to hear, but I'm afraid 99.9 percent of the Muslim population in the Middle East see this invasion as something more than just a war against Al Quada or Hussein.

Based on WHAT? YOUR opinion? When is the last time you WENT to Iraq or Afghanistan? When is the last time YOU stood the room with an AQ operative? Or met the man on the street in Baghdad? IMO your comfortable Euro-Trash who can sit with his morning coffee and pass judgement on the world. You should thank the better men who came before you and secured that safety. You can bet the path was not as clear cut as think it to be.

Crumpp

Masherbrum · « **Reply #116 on:** July 06, 2004, 10:29:49 PM »

Originally posted by Shuckins

"I've got some questions for ya G-Scholtz... In light of the crimes Saddam committed against his own people, do you believe that he deserved to remain in power? "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GSchulz

"Yes. If the people themselves does nothing about it they deserve him. "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hitler

. The people loved him.

Karaya

Nash · « **Reply #117 on:** July 06, 2004, 10:50:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Crumpp
Based on WHAT? YOUR opinion? When is the last time you WENT to Iraq or Afghanistan? When is the last time YOU stood the room with an AQ operative? Or met the man on the street in Baghdad? IMO your comfortable Euro-Trash who can sit with his morning coffee and pass judgement on the world. You should thank the better men who came before you and secured that safety. You can bet the path was not as clear cut as think it to be.

Crumpp

Gee... and I thought you were a new impassionate voice of some kind of reason. How quickly they succumb....

Crumpp · « **Reply #118 on:** July 06, 2004, 11:21:58 PM »

Nash,

Gscholz calls me a Criminal? You expect me not to respond after I have put my life on the line time and time again doing the right thing? I've been there. I know the ground truth.

I have seen a man take three bullets in the head ALL because we will not open up on ARMED locals. We did not want to harm innocents. Since carrying a gun in these countries DOES NOT make them a bad guy, they held fire. Because of that a 19 year old boy lost his life. On EVERY occasion we have even suspected innocent people were even near a building with bad guys in it we have gone in room-to-room rather than drop a bomb. It is not some abstract event on the TV. My 2-year-old daughter is sleeping 1 room away. Myself and my fellow soldiers put all of our tomorrows at risk for people we don't know to do everything in our power to ensure their safety and the help secure a better tomorrow for them, us, and the world. We didn't ask for this or start it, but we are working to end it.

Once more I have met the people. LIVED with them while in country. They are just as appalled by these criminals as we are AND glad to see the US there. They know things will get better and the vast majority are full of hope for the future. The present is a little scary but they know the violence will end.

You may disagree with what we are doing and how we are doing it. You're entitled to that. Resorting to mudslinging and accusations, especially from a position of ignorance is a different ballgame.

I am a reasonable man and do not deserve to be labeled a criminal. Gscholz has shown his true colors with that one AND defending him is just plain wrong.
He can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
Crumpp

Nash · « **Reply #119 on:** July 06, 2004, 11:43:32 PM »

Crumpp it goes without saying that yer a bigger man than I am, by far...

It's just that your on-the-ground experience is a different beast than the politics wot made you get that on the ground experience in the first place.

Two different things...

But the one thing you have over any one of us is just that experience. It lends perspective and context to your political views. It's rich, and I very much dig reading what you write.

Maybe my problem is wrt expectations/dissapointment... Dude it sucks to hear you say a lot of insightful things then quickly fall back on some kind of same 'ol "eurotrash" screaching.

A truly cogent case for the Bush admin's policies has been sorely lacking here for since, the beginning of time. I'm thinking you're up to it... but...