Author Topic: Vets speak out about Kerry  (Read 4043 times)

Offline NUKE

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2004, 03:01:08 PM »
"I was for communism before I was against it"  :lol

Offline Fishu

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2004, 03:23:58 PM »
"I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling the atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would certainly have done that." - Jeffrey Wainscott

Just like they reported those at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, etc.
Took a while and came out from the unofficial sources.
...and vietnam war was bigger and messier, making it easier to commit war crimes in secret.

I don't know about him but some surely aren't alike him even if claims to do the same.


"This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record straight." - William Shumadine


These quotes are much like the ones we've heard recently...
Even so those things somehow happened in Iraq, Afganistan, Guantanamo...

You can't either blindly believe these guys, since they do have a motive to lie in retaliation to Kerry's book, even if the book would be hoax.


and more one thing... I don't care for Kerry either, but I'm not willing to believe everything, especially now when theres an election 'war' under way.
Kerry/democratics and Bush/republicans have been already proven to use less than honest tactics in their election campaign.

Offline FUNKED1

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2004, 03:51:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
A picture of a visit by a Senator in 1991... disingenuous as hell Funky one.


Nothing disingenuous about it.  Read the page again.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2004, 04:06:38 PM »
Quote
What a load of crap!

The point is not how he actually served his country and did it well, it is that he actually took full advantage of those rights he guarded so well .. when he got home?

How can anyone take this position without having too much to drink?


Pick up a sign and protest....fine by all means.

Blatently lie before congress and associate yourself w/ pro communist organizations......that's a different monster in itself.

PS  Its only 2:07PM....the grill hasnt even been started so I cant possible have more than 4 or 5 beers in me yet ;)




Quote
Just like they reported those at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, etc.
Took a while and came out from the unofficial sources.
...and vietnam war was bigger and messier, making it easier to commit war crimes in secret.
 


Not even close to being a true statement.  

First.....Abu Gharib was reported to the media by centcom and even INVESTIGATED long before the pictures were made public and the rest of the world decided to beat a dead horse.  

Second:

Isolated atrocities committed by American soldiers produced torrents of outrage from antiwar critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any attention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations. From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 South Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and schoolteachers. [Nixon] Atrocities - every war has atrocities. War is brutal and not fair. Innocent people get killed.
http://cybersarges.tripod.com/vnfacts.html

Offline Gunslinger

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2004, 04:16:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
A picture of a visit by a Senator in 1991... disingenuous as hell Funky one.


WOW the communist seem to give him credit were credit is due:

Quote
In the Vietnamese Communist War Remnants Museum (formerly known as the "War Crimes Museum") in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), a photograph of John Kerry hangs in a room dedicated to the anti-war activists who helped the Vietnamese Communists win the Vietnam War. The photograph shows Senator Kerry being greeted by the General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, Comrade Do Muoi.

Offline MrCoffee

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2004, 04:44:19 PM »
Im back for a while :D

True, I do not believe the US lost the VN war however the US decided to pull out and create a stalemate situation. A political hack that would seem acceptable to the voting public. As for Kerry and his service, Im not so inclined to believe all the trash talking about his service, again politics talking. As for his declaration before congress, it was during a time when it was clear that the US was already planning its major pullout of forces in VN. At least he served and as far as Im concerned, hes earned his right to speak in his post war actions.

From the communists point of view. So Kerry was the "president" during the late 60s at a crucial time during the VN conflict. It was his actions then that decided a political stalemate was required to pull out US forces in VN. That picture in VN has more to do with post war politics then actual relevancy during the conflict. A combat veteran who actually went did his duty then returns and decides to try to save others is not a traitor.

As for war crimes. In war, alot of stuff happenbs that is never mentioned on the news and or even in the books. War is hell.

Goodbye :D
« Last Edit: July 03, 2004, 05:18:59 PM by MrCoffee »

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2004, 04:48:44 PM »
Why is this all relevant if as some would have us beleive that Mr Bush is going to re-elected in a landslide in a couple of months?

Offline montag

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2004, 05:33:49 PM »
_Schadenfreude_, I could care less whether he served or not. One more fighter jock dropping bombs over VN would not have made a difference. Im more concerned about the economy and Bush has not shown me that he has a good economic plan.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2004, 05:36:35 PM by montag »

Offline Capt. Pork

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2004, 05:46:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm371
Wow, so full of hate you can't even get your facts straight.


So we're allowed to hate presidents but not presidential candidates?

Offline MrCoffee

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2004, 05:52:20 PM »
Well to me it does matter whether the commander in chief did serve. I've already posted a list of the things that matter to me concerning Bush. I'll be more than happy to search for it and post it again if you like.

Offline Capt. Pork

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2004, 06:13:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrCoffee
Well to me it does matter whether the commander in chief did serve. I've already posted a list of the things that matter to me concerning Bush. I'll be more than happy to search for it and post it again if you like.


If I remember correctly, there was a strong contingent of Bush haters while he was still campaigning for the 2000 election. Everything from his drinking to his alleged cocaine habit were brought up, not to mention his father, the entire Bush Crime family and the fact that his daughters were troublemakers.

I'd vote for Kerry based on his looks before anything else.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2004, 09:59:59 PM by Capt. Pork »

Offline Shuckins

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2004, 07:00:14 PM »
Who is more believable...the vets who speak out against Kerry...or a Hollywood "producer" who makes a "documentary" about the president?

Which will get the most press time, do you think?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2004, 07:08:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
So we're allowed to hate presidents but not presidential candidates?


No Pork.

You see Rpm is a liberal. He likes Kerry. So its not OK to hate Kerry.

But RPM hates Bush, because Bush is not a liberal. So it's OK to hate Bush - also because Bush is Hitler and because Bush dated Osama Bin Laden's 4th cousin on his father's side sometime in the 1970s (according to Moore).

Offline Crumpp

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2004, 07:24:19 PM »
Quote
As for war crimes. In war, alot of stuff happenbs that is never mentioned on the news and or even in the books. War is hell.



Yeah Mr Coffe your absolutely right.  As a professional Soldier for the past 17 years I can attest to that.

Unfortunately it is not all what are attempting to imply.  More times than I can count I have seen with my own eyes brave men, men with families and children to come home too, put their OWN lives at risk in order to ensure innocent people don't get hurt.


Incidentally, I speak Vietnamese and visited Vietnam in 1994 as a member of Joint Task Force full accounting, looking for POW/MIA's.  While I was there many of the Vietnamese asked me "Why did America abandon us and when are you coming back?"  Men like Kerry, who help create a false perception at home helped contribute to that.

One quote really struck me as I read what the men who served with Kerry had to say:


   
Quote
Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."


That is the truth then just as it is today.  Yet the media, because it is an election year, wants to paint a different story.  I for one have not seen ONE US Newspaper run the story of the Poles finding the Cyclsarin cache.  Why?

Earlier in this conflict:
One battle I was involved in the Media reported we killed 48 women and children.  First of all, there were NO reporters even around the entire 2 weeks we spent routing the bad guys out of their caves.  In the initial ambush and subsequent battle, which bled over from a 1.5-mile long kill zone along the main road and into a small hamlet, TWO children were wounded.  One was a ten year old boy whose FATHER brought him up on the ambush line.  Kind of like we take our kids fishing, he took his to do some bonding while killing the "infidels".   When we found him, the boy had shrapnel wounds in his shoulder.  The battle literally stopped while we Medevac'd him.  Heck, I am a father myself with a 2-year-old girl; the last thing any of us want is to see ANY innocent person hurt.  He is alive today and made a 100 percent recovery.  The other child was a 14-year-old girl.  The bad guys put a machine gun bunker in her front year.  When we returned fire all the bullets which missed the bunker went into the house.  Fortunately no one else was hurt and she was only grazed.  We Medevac'd her and she made a complete recovery.

The reporter got his information when he heard that a big battle was going on.  As he left his hotel in the capital city a local told him that he knew the whole story.  Six major newspapers ran it.  I never felt so bad in my life.  Imagine having people think you would murder the innocent.

Why does the media create the perception that the bad guys in Iraq and Afghanistan are a home grown popular armed insurgency?  In fact, the majority of the bad guys we kill are not even Iraq OR Afghani.  They are Saudi's, Syrians, Jordanians, Chechen's, and other Arabs.  

http://www.meib.org/articles/0405_iraq1.htm

Why did the media create the perception that they "uncovered" the abuse in Iraqi prisons?  In fact the US Military had already fired a General and was proceeding with CRIMINAL investigations.  Instead of holding that up as an example of a Democratic Nation at work, they choose to paint the picture the Military needed supervision creating a "Moral" high ground for the Bad Guys to retaliate by beheading innocent people.  The story still would have reached the public.  Our Media is best propaganda AQ has going for them.  If you don't think so then ask yourself why there is a link to the LA Times on their website?

In the Kerry propaganda film "Swift Boat 94"  one of the crews comments struck me.  He talks about having been under fire for so long that he couldn't sleep at night blah blah blah…

I know men that spent WAY longer than one year in Vietnam.  Guys that served in MACV-SOG their entire time carrying a rifle under a rucksack.  The first NCO in charge of my unit was decorated 4 times for valor in Vietnam including a recommendation for the Medal of Honor, which was downgraded to a Distinguished Service Cross.  He spent 3 solid years over in Vietnam and the next 9 years going back and forth between Okinawa Japan and Vietnam.  He is one of the most devoted family men I have ever met and has, as most of the guys who truly were in the "chit" do, the quiet courage of his convictions.  Not at all like the Hollywood image of crazed killer or a neurotic who cannot handle "the real world".  That image is simply a way to cover the truth and make it more palatable for lesser men.  Larry, like the rest of us, would trade his life for nothing less than the hope of "Liberty and Justice For All".  All of us sleep well at night and quite frankly get disgusted when people that had problems BEFORE they went to combat use it as an excuse.

No, Kerry is definitely NOT the man I want as my Commander and Chief.

Crumpp

Offline Gunslinger

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2004, 12:11:26 AM »
WOW crump Great POST!

I'm not sure how to say this but its good to see somone whos BTDT back up what i've been saying for months with actual experience.  

there's not much more I could add to that....Thanks!