Author Topic: Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr  (Read 2321 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2004, 12:18:50 PM »
Somebody said members of this BBS want to kill them? Where?

Offline Crumpp

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2004, 12:19:52 PM »
What the media is failing to bring to public understanding is that much of the "opposition" in Iraq is foreign Arabs not Iraqi's.  Why do you think the Iraqi government is not welcoming other Arab nations offer of troops?


http://www.meib.org/articles/0405_iraq1.htm

The few Iraqi's who are involved in Armed opposition are those men whose interest lies outside seeing a free and democratic Iraq.

Why?

Because these Iraqi's, long before the coalition arrived, have firmly entrenched themselves against the rule of law.  They have committed mass murder, rape, and crimes against humanity in the name of Saddam Hussien.  Or they are opportunist who used the cloak of war to settle old scores and commit murder.  They know that under the rule of law, their only place in it is to be in front of a judge answering for their crimes.  Their choice is to face justice or fight. This guy killed another cleric, totally unrelated to the coalition, how religious a man can he be?


I've encountered this situation before.  Two farmers got together and killed a more successful third farmer for his land.  Just walked up to him and bashed his brains out with a couple of shovels.  We took them into custody.  Took statements from witnesses, recovered the body and photographed it.  Afterwards we turned them over to the Afghan Government.

I Am all for negotiating with men who think they are fighting for the future of their families but I would rather fight those that think the rifle is more powerful than the book.  He has twisted many good men to follow him.  These I would like to see exposed to the truth and saved if possible.  If we give in to this guy then we are cutting into the thread that binds us to our humanity.

Crumpp

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2004, 12:20:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo


If not for the power of the US to veto, Sanctions vs Iraq would have been removed nearly a decade ago. Then you would have to find even more comical excuses for the war in Iraq, but at least you wouldnt be able to blame it on the UN.


Yes the evil Neocons behind the Clinton regime really were out to screw iraq a decade ago..

So again I ask why all the hystecvical evil usa negativity...

storch

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2004, 12:34:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
It was your country that made the UN irrelevant by not obtaining their authority to launch this war. If only the US had waited and received that second resolution from the UN, you would have been able to legally wage war against iraq, with the help from your long time allies all over the world.
I will remind you that you had no opposition to the gulf war under GB senoir, nor did you have any oppostion to the Afghan war...we all supported and understood you.
This iraq war is very different.


Let's see.  a quick search of UN resolutions regarding Iraq produces 10 results between 1990 and 2002.

661 '90
678 '90
686 '90
687 '91
688 '91
707 '91
715 '91
986 '95
1284 '99
1441 '02
 
But none of that matters huh?  saddam hussein would be a threat to us as long as we allowed him to remain in power.  I'm glad we have a President who anihilated his regime and i hope he doesn't stop there.  No matter how generous or magnanimous we are America will never be loved or even liked by you people.  Perhaps you should start to fear us.

Offline flyingaround

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2004, 12:39:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
If your country had not launched an illegal immoral war against the sovereign country of Iraq, Al Sadr would be just some chubby cleric no one ever heard about. Along with the prison abuse pictures and all the subsequent court martials and continuing investigations, you can't in any way claim 'the high road' as your own crump.
Al Sadr charged with killing one man...the US has killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq.


Couple points here.

I see that by calling the U.S. actions immoral, you were pro-Saddam and favor mass murder of innocent civilians.  How horrible.  We warned the world we were going for the terrorist.  Saddam was in bed with them, AND was in violation for over a decade of U.N. resolutions that he aggreed to so as to avoid us marching up into Baghdad during the 1st war (was the liberation of Kuwait unjust and immoral also?) and taking him out.  I personally blame the majority of the decade of time btween the 2 wars on the U.S. having a bleeding heart tree hugger in charge of our military for 8 of those years.  Saddam was a bad guy.  Plenty of torture and killing (real torture, not nude pyramid building) was done by Saddam.  He needed taken out.

As far as the "high road", I see no comparison in embarrising some prisoners and attacking innocent civilians.  Ok, so some reservists made some Iraqi prisoners stand naked and took pictures of them in humiliating positions, FOR which they are being punished.  Vs. attacking and killing innocent civilians.  I fail to see how these two things are remotely the same.  One is similar to a fraternity prank, while the other is cold blooded murder.  Remind me again how they are alike.  I will be happy to dig up some old Sesame Street re-runs that have the "One of these things is not like the other ones" bit.  Seems you are a bit rusty.

And re. the US killing hundreds of thousands Iraqi's, I again fail to see the similarities to cold blooded murder, and deaths in a war.  The U.S. doesn't target innocent civilans, while Iraqi troops went out of their way to put the Iraq civilian population in harms way.  Don't blame the U.S. soldiers for blowing up the building that had a family of 12 in it.  Blame the 10 Iraqi soldiers who intentionally tried to use the civilians as a shield and used their house to attack the U.S. forces.  (not letting the civilians leave to get out of harms way I might add)

Have you been to war?  Have you seen war?  Do you have a CLUE what the rest of the world is like outside your narrow (and non. reality grounded) little world?  Let me hear some of your first hand experiences with human suffering.  I'm serious, I would like to hear them.  What have you personally witnessed?  Have you been to another country and witnessed some of the atrocities that were committed in Iraq?  OR anything remotely similar?  I would like to hear just what life experiences you have had that you are basing your opinions on.
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Offline Furball

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2004, 12:54:29 PM »
funny how you didnt follow the link on that page you posted. he is calling for peaceful resistance.  and so he should be allowed, its a "democracy" aint it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124734,00.html
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2004, 01:00:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
funny how you didnt follow the link on that page you posted. he is calling for peaceful resistance.  and so he should be allowed, its a "democracy" aint it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124734,00.html


No way!  We evil Amreekans are installing a dictatorship!!!!

Offline Crumpp

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2004, 01:09:14 PM »
Before you start spouting the "Greatness" of the UN, you need to examine its record and get the ground truth from the people it's attempted to help.

The UN is great in concept but falls extremely short in action.  Just ask the survivors of Bosnia about the effectiveness of the UN?

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/icons/survivors.html

Only when the United States began pushing and pushing the hand wringing European Powers did the bombs start falling on those responsible.  

Or talk to the Survivors of Sierra Leone about the greatness of the UN effort.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/04/africa_surviving_sierra_leone/html/1.stm

Talk to the Italians, who compromised their friends for their own personal safety in Somalia.  Yes after the Pakistani's were ambushed the Commander of the Italian Army contingent cut a deal with Mohammed Farid Adid.  In exchange for a guarantee of safety for Italian troops he reported to Adid every move TF Ranger made.  

I could go on and on....

What you fail to understand is that the UN pays around 750 US dollars to each soldier on a UN mission every month.  The United State turns this money back to the UN but most nations keep it.  It does not go to the soldier but rather falls into the Host Nation Government coffers in most cases.  Most of these countries have little real interest in these UN missions and their soldiers certainly do not see the point in dying for them.  It's a chance to increase your budget for the year and to posture on the Worlds Stage that your country is actually contributing something.  Big Political gains which end up meaning nothing or making things worse for those the UN was supposed to help.

The UN is great in theory but for the most part Bankrupt in practice.  Unfortunately it's the best thing the world has going for it IF we ever truly do hope to become a world community.  Don't be surprised if the United States acts as a sovereign nation when tough decisions the UN is incapable of making or effecting come along.  Maybe one day the UN will not be so bankrupt.  We are doing everything to see that happens.  Maybe Iraq will be the catalyst that wakes the UN up to reform.
Crumpp

Offline Holden McGroin

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2004, 01:13:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RTStuka
I dont listen to anything on fox news, only CNN!!!! :D


Yesterday on CNN Radio, I heard that we celebrate this years 4th of July as the 228 anniversary of the drafting of the constitution.

I thought we had for a while Articles of Confederation, but I guess I was wrong.  I learn something new everyday.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline xrtoronto

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2004, 01:14:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by flyingaround
Couple points here.

I see that by calling the U.S. actions immoral, you were pro-Saddam and favor mass murder of innocent civilians.  How horrible.  We warned the world we were going for the terrorist.  Saddam was in bed with them, AND was in violation for over a decade of U.N. resolutions that he aggreed to so as to avoid us marching up into Baghdad during the 1st war (was the liberation of Kuwait unjust and immoral also?) and taking him out.  I personally blame the majority of the decade of time btween the 2 wars on the U.S. having a bleeding heart tree hugger in charge of our military for 8 of those years.  Saddam was a bad guy.  Plenty of torture and killing (real torture, not nude pyramid building) was done by Saddam.  He needed taken out.

As far as the "high road", I see no comparison in embarrising some prisoners and attacking innocent civilians.  Ok, so some reservists made some Iraqi prisoners stand naked and took pictures of them in humiliating positions, FOR which they are being punished.  Vs. attacking and killing innocent civilians.  I fail to see how these two things are remotely the same.  One is similar to a fraternity prank, while the other is cold blooded murder.  Remind me again how they are alike.  I will be happy to dig up some old Sesame Street re-runs that have the "One of these things is not like the other ones" bit.  Seems you are a bit rusty.

And re. the US killing hundreds of thousands Iraqi's, I again fail to see the similarities to cold blooded murder, and deaths in a war.  The U.S. doesn't target innocent civilans, while Iraqi troops went out of their way to put the Iraq civilian population in harms way.  Don't blame the U.S. soldiers for blowing up the building that had a family of 12 in it.  Blame the 10 Iraqi soldiers who intentionally tried to use the civilians as a shield and used their house to attack the U.S. forces.  (not letting the civilians leave to get out of harms way I might add)

Have you been to war?  Have you seen war?  Do you have a CLUE what the rest of the world is like outside your narrow (and non. reality grounded) little world?  Let me hear some of your first hand experiences with human suffering.  I'm serious, I would like to hear them.  What have you personally witnessed?  Have you been to another country and witnessed some of the atrocities that were committed in Iraq?  OR anything remotely similar?  I would like to hear just what life experiences you have had that you are basing your opinions on.


blow it out your prettythang
and by the way...speaking of being in contempt of UN resolutions, when are you going to take the worlds biggest terrorists to task: israel? they have more resolutions agianst them than any other country, 87 to date...you convoluted, hypocritocal embicile:lol

I hold the lint I clean from my belly button in higher regard than I do for people like you--you total fediddleing goof

Offline Crumpp

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2004, 01:16:28 PM »
Your damn skippy his organization should be allowed peaceful resistance.  I hope they form an opposition party get involved in the democratic process.  Give the Iraqi people what they want.

However, that does not change the fact this guy needs to answer for his crimes in an Iraqi court.  If he is innocent then so be it, if not then he should pay.  That is not negotiable and is the main sticking point in prior coalition negotiations with him.  It will be interesting to see what the Iraqis' do.

Crumpp

storch

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2004, 01:17:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
blow it out your prettythang
and by the way...speaking of being in contempt of UN resolutions, when are you going to take the worlds biggest terrorists to task: israel? they have more resolutions agianst them than any other country, 87 to date...you convoluted, hypocritocal embicile:lol

I hold the lint I clean from my belly button in higher regard than I do for people like you--you total fediddleing goof


What a remarkably well thought out and erudite response to an intelligently presented argument.  I guess the Canadian education system is world class after all.

Offline xrtoronto

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2004, 01:22:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
What a remarkably well thought out and erudite response to an intelligently presented argument.  I guess the Canadian education system is world class after all.


try to come up with something new storch...ive seen you reuse this similar phrase time and time again with many many people...frankly its getting tired

btw: what university did you attend? :rofl

storch

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2004, 02:04:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
try to come up with something new storch...ive seen you reuse this similar phrase time and time again with many many people...frankly its getting tired

btw: what university did you attend? :rofl


really, please provide one link.  I served four years in the United States Navy as an enlistedman, I then went straight to work in various different fields finally settling in welding and sheetmetal work.  Later on as the security market looked promising we diversified into access controls and perimeter security.  while I took some pertinent courses on specific electronics equipment I never attended any university beyond an associates degree obtained slowly in the evenings.  What does that have to do with your consistently demonstrated ignorance?

Offline xrtoronto

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Who said it was a good idea to make peace with al-Sadr
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2004, 02:14:52 PM »
your opinion, as is your education, weightless;)